eBay

psychecafe63 · ‎06-12-2018

A customer purchased a thousand dollar 110lb generator from me. I sent it to them. To an international location outside the contiguous U.S. The customer wanted a return because, supposedly, it's broken. Here are the photos they sent to me:

Now, you tell me, does this look broken to you? eBay support stated that

We have asked for more information from your customer to confirm the condition of the item received. If any additional information is needed from you we will request it through an email.

However, when I asked them to look at the photos to notice that nothing was actually damaged, they said this:

Please understand that since eBay is an online marketplace, we do not have any means to inspect the items physically. We believe that the best option that we have is to have the item returned to you so that you can inspect it upon receiving it back before issuing a refund. Once you receive the item, we encourage you to look over it carefully. We don't grant appeals for sellers based on the condition of the buyer's return, but we can discuss your other options if that becomes necessary.I trust that this information is much of a help. Thank you for choosing eBay and we really appreciate your business with us!

I told them I wouldn't be paying return shipping on this, but somehow an "AS IS WHERE IS" and "ALL SALES FINAL" listing is being forced to foot the bill on an international return for a heavy item. I keep getting the same cookie cutter reply:

All these replies don't address the fact that none of the images show damage. What should I do?

I know that you're not a large business, and that the return shipping cost being charged to you isn't easy to bear, however; at eBay we treat sellers as businesses; plus, by selling online you are competing with large businesses (both online and traditional retail stores). Buyers appreciate excellent customer service, so by providing great experiences you're making eBay a great place to shop. This is crucial for repeat business and overall selling success. I understand that this isn't what you wanted to hear, but I hope I've explained why we take this approach. Our experience is that a better returns experience for buyers will ultimately drive more sales for you as a seller.

lonewanderer1553 · ‎06-12-2018

New, in-box items can be opened and then resealed and listed as 'new.' As far as I know, eBay doesn't consider this misrepresentation because there are many reasons why a seller might want to do this: To document serial numbers, to photograph the item in working order, etc. For particularly expensive items, I would definitely consider documenting the item's operation (that is, of the device actually running) as a preemptive measure against potential fraud.

However, do bear in mind that international shipping can be very rough on fragile items. It is very well possible that the item was damaged due to mishandling during shipment, to such an extent that the item may not even function anymore. Alternatively, the item could have been a DoA when you first purchased it, assuming that you've never actually tested the item's operation to begin with.

For expensive or heavy items, my policy is not to deal with international shipping at all. It may be wise to consider disabling that option in future listings like these.

pburn · ‎06-12-2018

@psychecafe63 wrote:
I see you've been a member since yesterday.

I've been a registered eBay member since 1998. I've spent a little time looking at photos of that exact generator on other vendors' websites. The one in the photos your buyer provided is clearly damaged. There is no "S joint" or whatever nonsense you came up with.

psychecafe63 · ‎06-12-2018

I'm unoffendable I think. Are those really my stats? My view is that people are more than what can be recorded about them. For the record, I want to be a better person. I'm also a hypocrite, but everyone is, right?

psychecafe63 · ‎06-12-2018

Can you provide those photos in this thread please. It would help.

2behappyall · ‎06-12-2018

Sue the buyer? forget about it, unless the buyer lives in the same city as you are.
How about suing the Ebay, yes of course, but you may lose your case for suing a wrong party. So who is the right party for you to sue? PayPal, because it manages your transaction and received money on your behalf and refunded to the buyer without your consent.

@psychecafe63 wrote:
If I can prove that the generator is a different generator than the one I purchased, and I have to pay the return shipping or if eBay forces an automatic refund, then what amount should I sue for?

It would just be the amount of the refund OR the refund and the return shipping? I guess that's my lawyer's decision. That, and whether it's eBay, the buyer, or both.

Sue the buyer? forget about it, unless the buyer lives in the same city as you are.
How about suing the Ebay, yes of course, but you may lose your case for suing a wrong party. So who is the right party for you to sue? PayPal, because it manages your transaction and received money on your behalf and refunded to the buyer without your consent.

psychecafe63 · ‎06-12-2018

It's not nonsense. It was a hypothetical claim. A hypothesis that you will soon quell shortly. Please provide those photo comparisons.

missjen831 · ‎06-12-2018

@2behappyall wrote:
Sue the buyer? forget about it, unless the buyer lives in the same city as you are.
How about suing the Ebay, yes of course, but you may lose your case for suing a wrong party. So who is the right party for you to sue? PayPal, because it manages your transaction and received money on your behalf and refunded to the buyer without your consent.
@psychecafe63 wrote:
If I can prove that the generator is a different generator than the one I purchased, and I have to pay the return shipping or if eBay forces an automatic refund, then what amount should I sue for?

It would just be the amount of the refund OR the refund and the return shipping? I guess that's my lawyer's decision. That, and whether it's eBay, the buyer, or both.

Sue the buyer? forget about it, unless the buyer lives in the same city as you are.
How about suing the Ebay, yes of course, but you may lose your case for suing a wrong party. So who is the right party for you to sue? PayPal, because it manages your transaction and received money on your behalf and refunded to the buyer without your consent.

It’s actually eBay that refunds the buyer here, not PayPal and it is with the sellers consent 😉

One life is all we have to live
Love is all we have to give

**Formerly known as MissJen316**

dasm-2785 · ‎06-12-2018

@psychecafe63 wrote:
Can you provide those photos in this thread please. It would help.

Why not look at the stock photos in your own listing

psychecafe63 · ‎06-12-2018

I'm open to being in the wrong state of mind on this matter[.]

psychecafe63 · ‎06-12-2018

Yeah, I wouldn't know. I can't find that exact angle. It's the right rear top. No photos show the right rear top. It probably is cracked if I assume symmetry from looking at the top rear left... Still need to wait from manufacturer to locate serial number purchase origin to be sure this isn't a swap. Future apologies if I end up being totally wrong. I mean, it is $1000 we're talking here, so a little caution is warranted.

pburn · ‎06-12-2018

@psychecafe63 wrote:
It's not nonsense. It was a hypothetical claim. A hypothesis that you will soon quell shortly. Please provide those photo comparisons.

I don't think "hypothetical" is quite the word you were looking for! LOL!

Just the same, I'll go you one better than photos. Here's a guy unpacking the same generator on YouTube. Clearly formed as one molded piece in the area just above the cross-bar handle. No funky crack-looking "joint" or "seam."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJWdSfmUDKQ

Skip ahead to 2:31 for a really clear shot of the area the buyer sent in the photo--right-hand side, just above the cross-bar handle. @dasm-2785, you'll want to see this, too.

hafoster · ‎06-12-2018

@psychecafe63 wrote:
So if I go the post office and purchase a label FROM the buyer TO me and send the label PDF to the buyer, and eBay automates the refund after the buyer has sent it back, what then?

If you send a PDF, be sure to upload it into the return request --

so that eBay can see the label, and monitor its tracking back to you.Or if you send cash by PayPal --

be sure it's for Goods and Services, not Friends and Family --so that if the buyer does not buy a label --

you can file an Item Not Received dispute to get your cash back.

sg51 · ‎06-12-2018

Dude. It didn't work out.

You have two actual choices.

1. Refund in full, buyer keeps it as is.

2. Send buyer funds to return it, or a return label useful to return it.

If you choose "none of the above", Ebay will select choice '1', and you will take the big daddy "unresolved" strike.

Arguing about the crack or serial numbers is totally irrelevant.

You may be able to sue buyer later, but, um, yeah.

2behappyall · ‎06-12-2018

@missjen831 wrote:
@2behappyall wrote:
Sue the buyer? forget about it, unless the buyer lives in the same city as you are.
How about suing the Ebay, yes of course, but you may lose your case for suing a wrong party. So who is the right party for you to sue? PayPal, because it manages your transaction and received money on your behalf and refunded to the buyer without your consent.
@psychecafe63 wrote:
If I can prove that the generator is a different generator than the one I purchased, and I have to pay the return shipping or if eBay forces an automatic refund, then what amount should I sue for?

It would just be the amount of the refund OR the refund and the return shipping? I guess that's my lawyer's decision. That, and whether it's eBay, the buyer, or both.

Sue the buyer? forget about it, unless the buyer lives in the same city as you are.
How about suing the Ebay, yes of course, but you may lose your case for suing a wrong party. So who is the right party for you to sue? PayPal, because it manages your transaction and received money on your behalf and refunded to the buyer without your consent.

It’s actually eBay that refunds the buyer here, not PayPal and it is with the sellers consent 😉

psychecafe63 · ‎06-12-2018

Wow. 1080p. Ok, I concede. FYI, you can automate the skip to 2:31 like this (see the end of the link): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJWdSfmUDKQ&t=2m31s