Non paying bidder entitled to item not received case

[aabalat_fine_and_rare_wines]

So apparently in their infinite wisdom ebay now allows buyers that did not pay for their items, in cases where a non-paying bidder case was opened and we received a final value fee credit, to file an item not received case!  

We called and were told that they were very, truly sorry that this happened, but they were not sorry enough about it to do anything.   They said we should just wait and in 21 days the case would resolve itself. 

Im guessing in just a few days when we dont respond it will close the case in the buyers favor and we will get a strike on our account.   Then we will be calling back to fight that.

Negative feedback for not shipping the unpaid for item is most likely the next progression in this case Im guessing lol.

And Ebay wonders why sellers are finding alternative venues to sell?   I am so happy to say that we now do over 80% of our sales on other platforms.   So done with the lousy overseas support. 

[earlyant-77]

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@mam98031 wrote:

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@earlyant-77 wrote:

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@the*dog*ate*my*tablecloth wrote:

One of the many many things wrong with EBay. They can’t seem to train their bots..

How would one “train” software?

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I've written programs that 'learn' and still are learning after almost 25 years.

But I know what I'm writing, and more importantly, WHY I am writing it and have actually used what I write.

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I would venture a guess that most programs written for the Ebay site are not AI related.  Certainly not all programs written are written in a way to be an AI.

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True. But the ones that are written that way have been stuck in pre-school for a few years.

[mam98031]

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@earlyant-77 wrote:

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@mam98031 wrote:

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@earlyant-77 wrote:

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@the*dog*ate*my*tablecloth wrote:

One of the many many things wrong with EBay. They can’t seem to train their bots..

How would one “train” software?

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I've written programs that 'learn' and still are learning after almost 25 years.

But I know what I'm writing, and more importantly, WHY I am writing it and have actually used what I write.

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I would venture a guess that most programs written for the Ebay site are not AI related.  Certainly not all programs written are written in a way to be an AI.

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True. But the ones that are written that way have been stuck in pre-school for a few years.

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I have no knowledge of which ones are or aren't, so I have no idea if that is a true statement or even relevant to the issue at hand.

[elitefashions12-0]

I understand that but an INR should not even allowed to be opened without proof of payment, E Bay themselves have no record and as i said whether they achieve anything or not no seller wants a case on hold for 21 days knowing it is totally false and E Bay allowing them to do it is just plain ridiculous, another fine example of everything for the buyer, ( or in this case non buyer ) and to hell with the seller, before you say he may have paid another way E Bay cannot see, their chance to prove that was with the unpaid item case . They lost close the case.

[the*dog*ate*my*tablecloth]

You know what they say about assumptions...

I have a degree in MIS. My husband and daughter are software engineers. I'm retired. My son is graduating with a double major in computer science and robotics engineering. We are all about software in my house.

i agree with Mam. It’s unlikely eBay's bots are smart. 

[mam98031]

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@elitefashions12-0 wrote:

I understand that but an INR should not even allowed to be opened without proof of payment, E Bay themselves have no record and as i said whether they achieve anything or not no seller wants a case on hold for 21 days knowing it is totally false and E Bay allowing them to do it is just plain ridiculous, another fine example of everything for the buyer, ( or in this case non buyer ) and to hell with the seller, before you say he may have paid another way E Bay cannot see, their chance to prove that was with the unpaid item case . They lost close the case.

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That isn't what an INR is about.  Certainly payment is required if the buyer wants to get the item and/or refunded.  But it will all work out fine for the seller.  As I stated before, I agree, I think leaving it open for 21 days is way too long.

[earlyant-77]

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@the*dog*ate*my*tablecloth wrote:

You know what they say about assumptions...

I have a degree in MIS. My husband and daughter are software engineers. I'm retired. My son is graduating with a double major in computer science and robotics engineering. We are all about software in my house.

i agree with Mam. It’s unlikely eBay's bots are smart. 

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I agree with that also.

I just stated that it's possible to do it and have it done right.

[aabalat_fine_and_rare_wines]

We would certainly not ship until payment was received, so no worry there!

Guess we will sit by and watch the show and see what happens. Hopefully what was said above is what will happen and it will resolve itself without further issue.

[gramophone-georg]

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@mam98031 wrote:

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@csbbct wrote:

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@aabalat_fine_and_rare_wines wrote:

Im guessing in just a few days when we dont respond it will close the case in the buyers favor and we will get a strike on our account.   Then we will be calling back to fight that.

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There's also a chance if you don't respond that eBay automatically refunds money to the buyer and charges your account for it.  I would call CS again and insist they close the INR case in your favor, escalate if you have to.  Don't have faith that they'll do this right.

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Why would that happen?  I've never heard of this happening on an unpaid item.  Did this happen to you?

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You read the boards, right? You've NEVER seen this scenario happen where the seller had to start a thread and fight like mad to get someone at eBay to wake up and realize that the "buyer" never paid? I have- more than once.

[gramophone-georg]

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@the*dog*ate*my*tablecloth wrote:

One of the many many things wrong with EBay. They can’t seem to train their bots..

How would one “train” software?

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Ask the "software company".  Supposedly they have artificial intelligence. It's pretty clear they don't have the natural kind.

[gramophone-georg]

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@aabalat_fine_and_rare_wines wrote:

So apparently in their infinite wisdom ebay now allows buyers that did not pay for their items, in cases where a non-paying bidder case was opened and we received a final value fee credit, to file an item not received case!  

We called and were told that they were very, truly sorry that this happened, but they were not sorry enough about it to do anything.   They said we should just wait and in 21 days the case would resolve itself. 

Im guessing in just a few days when we dont respond it will close the case in the buyers favor and we will get a strike on our account.   Then we will be calling back to fight that.

Negative feedback for not shipping the unpaid for item is most likely the next progression in this case Im guessing lol.

And Ebay wonders why sellers are finding alternative venues to sell?   I am so happy to say that we now do over 80% of our sales on other platforms.   So done with the lousy overseas support. 

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Danger, Will Robinson. Must be time for more "coaching".

[earlyant-77]

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@gramophone-georg wrote:

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@the*dog*ate*my*tablecloth wrote:

One of the many many things wrong with EBay. They can’t seem to train their bots..

How would one “train” software?

---

Ask the "software company".  Supposedly they have artificial intelligence. It's pretty clear they don't have the natural kind.

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And we see every day how well it works in search ................

[mam98031]

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@gramophone-georg wrote:

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@mam98031 wrote:

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@csbbct wrote:

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@aabalat_fine_and_rare_wines wrote:

Im guessing in just a few days when we dont respond it will close the case in the buyers favor and we will get a strike on our account.   Then we will be calling back to fight that.

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There's also a chance if you don't respond that eBay automatically refunds money to the buyer and charges your account for it.  I would call CS again and insist they close the INR case in your favor, escalate if you have to.  Don't have faith that they'll do this right.

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Why would that happen?  I've never heard of this happening on an unpaid item.  Did this happen to you?

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You read the boards, right? You've NEVER seen this scenario happen where the seller had to start a thread and fight like mad to get someone at eBay to wake up and realize that the "buyer" never paid? I have- more than once.

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I have no idea what your point is.  I think you may have misunderstood my post or some of my posts.

Ebay has always [as far back as I can remember] allowed buyers to open an INR whether on Ebay the item shows paid or not.  That is because payment may have been remitted by some other means other than electronic.

So what is your point exactly?  It isn't like the buyer can get refunded!!!

[threshold.sales.group]

Fwiw, those who've been here a few years will remember there was a long thread awhile back where the seller did indeed lose an unpaid /never paid INR case. The never paid invoice amount was debited from his PayPal account.  The OP kept calling c-s and was told it was impossible, the system wouldn't do that,  then upon seeing the "impossible" happened was promised it was going to be fixed - never happened. IIRC, the OP finally got through to some exec high up on the food chain and got their money back. The lesson (imo) is that not having the bogus INR case actively closed in the sellers favor asap is inviting trouble.  

[Anonymous]

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@gramophone-georg wrote:

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@mam98031 wrote:

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@csbbct wrote:

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@aabalat_fine_and_rare_wines wrote:

Im guessing in just a few days when we dont respond it will close the case in the buyers favor and we will get a strike on our account.   Then we will be calling back to fight that.

---

There's also a chance if you don't respond that eBay automatically refunds money to the buyer and charges your account for it.  I would call CS again and insist they close the INR case in your favor, escalate if you have to.  Don't have faith that they'll do this right.

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Why would that happen?  I've never heard of this happening on an unpaid item.  Did this happen to you?

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You read the boards, right? You've NEVER seen this scenario happen where the seller had to start a thread and fight like mad to get someone at eBay to wake up and realize that the "buyer" never paid? I have- more than once.

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Hi @gramophone-georg, I just want to clear up some confusion that is present in this thread that I attempted to address in my previous responses:

• If an item is not paid for, then the transaction is not eligible for protection through the eBay Money Back Guarantee.
• A request can be opened, because a request is simply a form of communication between buyer and seller.
• It is not uncommon for a customer to believe they have paid for something when they have not - this is not limited to eBay, but all of retail.
• If a buyer is saying they have not received an item, but you as the seller know they did not pay for the item, then you can reply to politely explain this to them.
  • A seller can also direct the buyer to purchase the item through eBay and secure a sale they otherwise may have lost out on.
• If a buyer did pay for an item outside of eBay's checkout, we would not have a record of this.
  • This means we could not step in on the request to take action; neither the seller nor the buyer will have the option to ask us to step in, and Customer Service would not be able to take action on the request.
• Under no circumstances does a seller have to start a thread on the Community Boards to bring to eBay's attention that an item was not paid for - the payment status is prominently displayed to us when viewing any related transactions or requests (quite literally at the top of the page in bold lettering we will see PAID, NOT PAID, or PARTIALLY PAID). Even if this was somehow missed, it is not possible to step in on a request and take action - eBay does not have the option to close the case.
• A request for a transaction that is not eligible for the eBay Money Back Guarantee would not have any impact on the seller's account; no defect or service metric miss would be recorded.
• No coaching is needed as the information the OP received from Customer Service is accurate. The request will close on it's own after 21 business days have passed.

While I understand that some sellers would not expect the buyer to be able to open an item not received request when an unpaid item case has already been closed with no payment recorded, I have clarified that a request is possible and provided additional context around that process. Though a buyer may not have paid through eBay and did not provide proof of payment during the Unpaid Item Case, an unpaid item case is not something the buyer opens to seek protection or resolution. An unpaid item case is something a seller opens to properly record non-payment on the buyer's account, receive a credit of their fees, or potentially prompt payment through eBay. A buyer would not be able to respond to the unpaid item case to state they paid for the item already, nor could they appeal the unpaid item case to provide proof of payment to the seller/request a refund. The way they would provide this proof of payment or request a refund is through an item not received request. Many sellers take these requests as an opportunity to provide customer service to their buyers and give instruction on how to checkout through eBay.

[gramophone-georg]

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@threshold.sales.group wrote:

Fwiw, those who've been here a few years will remember there was a long thread awhile back where the seller did indeed lose an unpaid /never paid INR case. The never paid invoice amount was debited from his PayPal account.  The OP kept calling c-s and was told it was impossible, the system wouldn't do that,  then upon seeing the "impossible" happened was promised it was going to be fixed - never happened. IIRC, the OP finally got through to some exec high up on the food chain and got their money back. The lesson (imo) is that not having the bogus INR case actively closed in the sellers favor asap is inviting trouble.  

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Exactly. This could be any one of a few threads I remember.

I haven't seen any of these recently, though, so hopefully this "glitch" is finally fixed.