INR case, tracking shows delivered - Money on hold for 4-5 Business Days??

[nuclearomen]

I had a buyer open a INR case yesterday. This buyer purchased the same item twice, one one day another the following day. Both items were sent via USPS Priority Mail and shows as delivered (first package on 12th, 2nd package on the 14th). Buyer also left feedback for the item opened INR case on as "A+ Seller".... 

On the case, buyer says they received one but not the other, they were away, further, say they "don't think they got the other" - again, tracking shows as delivered. I enter the tracking into the case, and explain tracking shows delivered for the item case opened + the 2nd item with tracking # in the comments. These kind of claims were always an open and shut case, tracking shows delivered, case closed in seller favor.  

I call ebay and they tell me case can't close, even though they agree ebay will hold my money for 4-5 biz days for the case to close. Kinda absurd for INR case where the tracking is proof buyer received the item(s). 

tyler@ebay  velvet@ebay  why exactly can ebay not close this case and they hold my money for 4-5 days + another day to re-process those funds + another day to be paid out = A week - for a INR case where the tracking clearly shows as delivered + buyer feedback. 

I wrote in the case to buyer that tracking shows and they acknowledged tracking shows delivered and that my obligation was completed. Their issue is with USPS and possible mail theft in which they need to file a report with USPS and their local police dept  if in fact they didn't get packages/mail that was delivered while they were away. 

[vintagecraze50]

Yep, extremely concerned here about this “hold” on INR claims for these types of situations. It could become a really troublesome issue here folks with buyers screaming at Ebay and the seller when this happens and there is NO WAY I am going to loose thousands of dollars here becuase a customer is irresponsible. If that begins to be a problem on here EVERYTHING is going out with a Signature period. And my prices will increase as a result of this because as always things happen on here that cost sellers more and more. Never ends.

[vintagecraze50]

I believe that we may now be responsible for that as well. Be prepared. Send everything of higher value with a signature to be safe. Do not be caught off guard from this with an expensive item that buyer says was not delivered. Signature says, YES YOU GOT YOUR PACKAGE.

[vintagecraze50]

Then we can hear complaints from customers becuase they had to sign for their package. Remedy that by telling them in a message that you’re package requires a signature.

[vintagecraze50]

I got a feeling that customers have been complaining about these postal mistakes and we will be held accountable for this. Not sure becuase this is pretty cryptic as far as this 24 hr hold to investigate whether these packages are delivered. Tracking showing delivered may not be acceptable anymore, which is really unbelievable, because there is no way that a seller has any control over these issues whatsoever.

[dhbookds]

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@vintagecraze50 wrote:

Then we can hear complaints from customers becuase they had to sign for their package. Remedy that by telling them in a message that you’re package requires a signature.

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Be far better to put signature required in the listing itself........in my opinion.......  We've seen sellers get negs for it.........and frankly, I think it could lead to a NAD claim if it isn't in the listing.........

[vintagecraze50]

Yeah, when we used USPS we had that on ALL our listings. I would not send a thing out here without a sig, Then USPS went spiraling downhill and we switched everything to Fed Ex and Fed Ex is a lot more expensive to ship so we removed that from all the listings. Now, I gotta go back over about 605 listings and plug that back in again to the body of the text, and raise my prices by 5 bucks on over 600 listings. 

[nuclearomen]

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@vintagecraze50 wrote:

I believe that we may now be responsible for that as well. Be prepared. Send everything of higher value with a signature to be safe. Do not be caught off guard from this with an expensive item that buyer says was not delivered. Signature says, YES YOU GOT YOUR PACKAGE.

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@vintagecraze50 tracking is confirmation buyer got package, carriers do not steal packages and rarely packages get delivered to wrong address. The other issue is that some carriers like USPS have it so you get set up signature confirmation to be applied even if your not home to receive the package, they started it last year. When ebay starts taking a stance against carriers tracking that is where the issue would be and they have no ground to do that. Tracking is very reliable. 

[nuclearomen]

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@vintagecraze50 wrote:

I got a feeling that customers have been complaining about these postal mistakes and we will be held accountable for this. Not sure becuase this is pretty cryptic as far as this 24 hr hold to investigate whether these packages are delivered. Tracking showing delivered may not be acceptable anymore, which is really unbelievable, because there is no way that a seller has any control over these issues whatsoever.

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@vintagecraze50 customers can say whatever, but fact remains that if tracking says delivered it was delivered and to argue that with a carrier is useless. The carriers ride their whole business off tracking. Invest millions into their tracking systems. There is always a chance of human error but when it comes to delivery of package they are always scanned at time item arrives at door or mail box. Employees from all carriers can loose their jobs if they do not. Like I said carriers business rides on tracking and accuracy. If ebay starts to question that then where are we really? Every business in the world that ships sales use tracking as standard of confirmation. As for buyers, they complain about anything, doesn't mean what they say is true and often you find exactly that, everything they claim wasn't true at all, just words typed into a claim to try and get their stuff free. 

[velvet@ebay]

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@coffeebean832 wrote:

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velvet@ebay wrote:

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When you ship with tracking and it updates as delivered on our end, we allow the buyer 24 hours to contact us about any shipping issues. After that point, the case will close automatically and any funds that were on hold will release to you.

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That's what happens when the buyer opens the INR before delivery. A delivery scan after the buyer  files the INR will typically close it out within a day of delivery.

Big however- velvet@ebay 

When a buyer opens an INR after the delivery scans are already in the system, eBay keeps the INR open forever. Here's a screenshot from one of my INRs where tracking confirmed delivery before the INR was opened and I responded to the case right away by uploading the tracking number and also giving the buyer advice on how to work with their mail carrier/police for a stolen package. I had to wait a month (21 business days) for my funds to be released with no option to escalate.

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That's odd @coffeebean832!  At the longest you should only have to wait the regular three business days to escalate. If this happens again and you don't see the option after three business days then I'd encourage you to contact Customer Support for assistance in getting the claim closed. While it can't be escalated and closed early, after that three business day timeframe a teammate can go in and get it closed for you.

I did a deep dive though and I believe you are right in that it's just the three day timeframe now and not typically the case that a claim will close within 24-hours of delivery. It's looking like this changed within the last few months. I'll have this looked into further as we don't want to give out info that is no longer accurate. We also don't want you waiting upwards of 21-days to have a claim close and your funds release though, so be sure you're contacting Customer Support after that three business day timeframe to get a claim escalated and closed when the option to do so isn't there on day four for some reason. 

I'm sorry for your long wait in the past but I hope this info helps should you run into a similar issue with a claim going forward and thank you for bringing the possible change in policy to my attention for further inspection. 😊

[velvet@ebay]

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@popblox wrote:

Lol, I wasn't sure I was gonna make that edit in time. Anyway, the last time I received an email w/ the 24 hour wording was July 10 - I've had 2 INR's since then with items that were delivered and never received this email. I will note that they were both items that were already delivered when the cases were opened (as opposed to after). Not sure if that's the mitigating factor or not.

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Hey @popblox! I've been looking into this further and as I mentioned to @coffeebean832 here it looks like things may have changed and info on our end wasn't fully updated. I'm having that looked into further but you are right that it appears sellers now have to wait the regular three business day timeframe to escalate. If you don't see that option on day four, then you can contact Customer Support as they should be able to step in and push that through at that time. Apologies for the confusion! 

[nuclearomen]

@vintagecraze50 I use USPS exclusively... for what I sell mostly (vinyl) media is the only affordable method to ship. UPS / Fed-Ex would cost on average $15 a package that cost (as of sunday) $3.81 USPS. I have rarely in 20 years had issue with USPS - they regularly deliver my packages on time and many cases before the expected date. Xmas is the one time things take longer... but even there they delivered all my packages except one last year, that was sent priority and showed up to buyer 2 months later...they sent me the item back cause I refunded them a month before that + USPS sent me a check for the insurance on the item.

I'm not paying for signature confirmation on $30-$40-$50 item + geniuses at ebay don't allow sellers to charge that cost as they don't have any option to do it, you have add the cost into the price of item if you like me and offer free shipping or add the cost into your shipping charge and then can't have it as calculated. These are things I have never liked about ebay and they have told about all this millions of times over and done nothing. They are more worried about what date is shown to customers for package then providing the options for shipping that sellers really need. 

[coffeebean832]

Tagging in @bigdeals.etc because he's also had INRs that didn't give him an option to escalate after 3 days.

velvet@ebay, as you look into this, can you find out why it's necessary for a seller to take an extra step and escalate after 3 days when the tracking confirms delivery? Shouldn't the system automatically close the request in the seller's favor? It would also be appreciated if you could find out why the option to escalate doesn't appear in some cases.

[velvet@ebay]

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@nuclearomen wrote:

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@katzrul15 wrote:

Your screen shot is June.  Interesting too that a "blue" quotes it to @nuclearomen today, but I cannot find it as it appears it was poofed.  As surmised - it has to be really recent.

(glad you could edit your name from from the above screenshot)

ETA: I thought I had replied to the blue in my previous post and did not - I meant for velvet@ebay to answer me as I was trying to see "where" they were pulling this from.

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I believe they are getting it from the way the policy always was, and depends on how you interpret it, but once a case closed it would take approx 24 hrs for those funds to come off hold and enter "Processing" stage in MP, another 24 hrs for it to pay out, another 24 hrs for it to reach bank... that is 72 hrs total just for funds to be repaid to you and that is only if those funds release, process, and payout before Friday. 

velvet@ebay  however saying that the case would close in 24 hrs and the funds released. This instantly tells me that there is some kind of miscommunication happening within ebay currently due to either a policy change that was made to have the "system" handle the claim and that is set to a waiting time of 4-5 business days... reps told me that on Sep 2nd I could ask ebay to step in and then likely take another 24-78 hrs for ebay to "review" and close a case. This is  the problem. Because the time between case opened to case closed for a INR case where tracking verifies delivery is being handled in a way as INR where a package never arrived to buyer... allowing time for both seller and buyer to work out a resolve, if none is found then after the 4-5 business day seller can ask ebay to step in for resolve. These two INR case types are completely different and should be handled completely different, but someone within ebay decided to have them treated and handled the exact same way. In the mist of this, ebay seems to have made this change out of the blue very recently and seems purposely kept the information of the change away from sellers. No where, not anywhere is this policy change mentioned and no announcement was made to inform anyone. And seems, even ebay community employees don't even know what is going on, according to velvet@ebay answer today. Though she is correct, that is the way INR cases where tracking confirms delivery were always handled. But alas, it's now something like 90 hrs and the case is still open, no email has been sent from ebay about the closing of the case, my funds are still on hold. I have said it 100 times now on this thread and saying again, this is absurd for this type of INR case, buyer received the item, close the case and refund my money! 

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I'm sorry for the confusion @nuclearomen as there was a change it looks like in the last few months and it wasn't updated entirely on our end, hence my info about the 24-hour closure of the claim/release of the funds. Once those funds are released though, they follow the normal payments payout process, so they aren't instantly in your bank account.

Thanks to this conversation you started, as I've been able to pass this on for further review. We definitely want our members to get a consistent response from teammates and to ensure we're all on the same page. We hope having all these timeframes aligned will lead to less confusion in the end though, as there won't be so many varying timeframes to keep track of. 

Should you ever run into the situation where the option to escalate isn't showing after three business days, please be sure to contact Customer Support so they can get it closed out for you. While they can't be closed early, they can be closed on time! 

[nuclearomen]

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velvet@ebay wrote:

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@nuclearomen wrote:

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@katzrul15 wrote:

Your screen shot is June.  Interesting too that a "blue" quotes it to @nuclearomen today, but I cannot find it as it appears it was poofed.  As surmised - it has to be really recent.

(glad you could edit your name from from the above screenshot)

ETA: I thought I had replied to the blue in my previous post and did not - I meant for velvet@ebay to answer me as I was trying to see "where" they were pulling this from.

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I believe they are getting it from the way the policy always was, and depends on how you interpret it, but once a case closed it would take approx 24 hrs for those funds to come off hold and enter "Processing" stage in MP, another 24 hrs for it to pay out, another 24 hrs for it to reach bank... that is 72 hrs total just for funds to be repaid to you and that is only if those funds release, process, and payout before Friday. 

velvet@ebay  however saying that the case would close in 24 hrs and the funds released. This instantly tells me that there is some kind of miscommunication happening within ebay currently due to either a policy change that was made to have the "system" handle the claim and that is set to a waiting time of 4-5 business days... reps told me that on Sep 2nd I could ask ebay to step in and then likely take another 24-78 hrs for ebay to "review" and close a case. This is  the problem. Because the time between case opened to case closed for a INR case where tracking verifies delivery is being handled in a way as INR where a package never arrived to buyer... allowing time for both seller and buyer to work out a resolve, if none is found then after the 4-5 business day seller can ask ebay to step in for resolve. These two INR case types are completely different and should be handled completely different, but someone within ebay decided to have them treated and handled the exact same way. In the mist of this, ebay seems to have made this change out of the blue very recently and seems purposely kept the information of the change away from sellers. No where, not anywhere is this policy change mentioned and no announcement was made to inform anyone. And seems, even ebay community employees don't even know what is going on, according to velvet@ebay answer today. Though she is correct, that is the way INR cases where tracking confirms delivery were always handled. But alas, it's now something like 90 hrs and the case is still open, no email has been sent from ebay about the closing of the case, my funds are still on hold. I have said it 100 times now on this thread and saying again, this is absurd for this type of INR case, buyer received the item, close the case and refund my money! 

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I'm sorry for the confusion @nuclearomen as there was a change it looks like in the last few months and it wasn't updated entirely on our end, hence my info about the 24-hour closure of the claim/release of the funds. Once those funds are released though, they follow the normal payments payout process, so they aren't instantly in your bank account.

Thanks to this conversation you started, as I've been able to pass this on for further review. We definitely want our members to get a consistent response from teammates and to ensure we're all on the same page. We hope having all these timeframes aligned will lead to less confusion in the end though, as there won't be so many varying timeframes to keep track of. 

Should you ever run into the situation where the option to escalate isn't showing after three business days, please be sure to contact Customer Support so they can get it closed out for you. While they can't be closed early, they can be closed on time! 

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velvet@ebay thanks for reply (again) but can I suggest bring to attention of ebay that while the timeframe they are trying to make "universal" for all cases, all cases are not the same and should not be handled the same. INR case where the tracking shows delivered should not be taking 3-4-5 whatever business days for case to close, 24 hrs tops is all ebay should need to verify tracking and then close the case and return funds to MP processing. There is a BIG DIFFERENCE in INR where tracking confirms package delivery and INR where package never arrived, why ebay decided to treat the two differences the same is beyond everyone here.  

[katzrul15]

@nuclearomen 

How many days is yours now?  Aren't you past 3 days?  Or is someone going to say 3 business days?  (3 full moon days, 3 chipmunk days, 3 sunny days....)