Ebay forcing refund and return on remorse return.

[bgt_masters_of_tiki_d]

I sold an item a couple weeks ago. The item was listed no returns. The buyer got the item and it did not fit and they filed for a return under that reasoning. I declined it. A week or so later I just got a message saying they opened a case. A minute later I got another email saying they are allowing the buyer to return the item and will deduct the refund and cost of shipping from my available funds. 

So I am just giving ebay free reign over my money now to do as they wish and not follow their own rules and policies? This place still just a venue? It was a remorse return, the item had no returns offered, I declined the return request. End of story. What sort of precedent are they sending here? This happen to anyone else before and any luck fighting it?

[fbusoni]

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@albertabrightalberta wrote:

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@bgt_masters_of_tiki_d wrote:

Not all of my listings offer returns. How would I of been able to decline the return in the first place if I accepted returns? I grew tired of all of the remorse returns I was getting where ebay was basically making me pay for return shipping anyways so as someone recommended I started testing no returns on some items. This was one of several I have sold since then. Here is the listing 375758835728  If the listing offered returns 

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@bgt_masters_of_tiki_d 

I wasn't able to pull up the listing through ebay but I did find a cache of the listing and you did list it without a return policy. 

So I'm not sure why, after declining a remorse return request the buyer was able to open another. 

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@albertabrightalberta 

This item ⬆️  does not appear to be the same as that shown in the photo (details of the return request) above provided by @bgt_masters_of_tiki_d 

In THAT photo, the buyer writes for reason for return:  

 

@bgt_masters_of_tiki_d :  in your original listing, we know that you specified the dimensions of the part that you listed...  because eBay writes back to you:

 

Unless I am mistaken (which is highly possible as I have no experience with returning anything to eBay) , it would appear that the buyer opened an INAD (a "case") after you denied his remorse return.

A thinking human being at eBay then reviewed your original listing and saw that you HAD in fact described the item accurately -- 18 cm.

The buyer did not properly measure his fridge. 

So eBay ruled in your favor -- in line with your no return policy.

I do not know if this is a distinction that is only now being made by eBay.   Rather, say, then simply defaulting to the eBay MBG.

However, I am reminded of an incident last spring or summer, I believe, which also resulted from the buyer not measuring properly.   In this case it was a hubcap.   Buyer nonetheless left the seller -- a guy with tens of thousands of sales and 100% perfect feedback -- either a neutral or a negative.  The seller (hubcapjoe I believe is his seller ID) posted a YT video about the experience, which I believe generated sufficient outrage to get eBay to once again start putting real eyes on these sorts of cases.  (@valueaddedresource, am I correct that you wrote about this incident?)

Someone please let me know if I am missing something (at my age, always a possibility 😁).  thanks

[fbusoni]

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@soholuxurydeals wrote:

Ebay has lousy seller protections. I just had a buyer do this to me after begging me to lower my price. Now they claim it's an inauthentic item (which it 100% is not). Of course, Ebay sides with this **bleep** buyer.

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@soholuxurydeals 

FWIW, buyers who message me like that -- "begging" for any sort of reduction in price on a BIN item with no offers accepted -- are immediately added to by blocked buyer list.

In my experience (over 65 years, both in real life and on eBay), these individuals 99% of the time do not respect boundaries and fit a very distinct personality profile.

Engaging them is simply opening a can of worms.

I'd be curious to know how the message you received was worded.    You can tell a lot from how a person communicates in writing.

[lacemaker3]

@albertabrightalberta-- the listing was linked to a product page, so it redirects to the product page because the listing has ended. But the product is currently out of stock, so there aren't any active listings to open. You did find the right listing, and you can open it with this link, which I posted earlier (here) and which includes a no-redirect html code (like the item links you get from Terapeak product research).

https://www.ebay.com/itm/375758835728/?nordt=true

In this case, it really looks like the buyer opened the wrong case. The listing is confusing, and the buyer probably did not get what they were expecting, or what the product page said it would be. The buyer should have opened a "not as described" case in the first place, rather than "doesn't fit", because the listing does not have a clear description, it is ambiguous and confusing.

@fbusoni-- sorry, but I do think you've missed some things. The picture you mentioned was sent by the buyer, it's not one of the pictures from the listing. There's a link to the original listing above.

The listing does not give any measurements for any of the parts. I think the buyer meant the set of trim parts was for an 18 cubic foot fridge, and he needed a set for a 22 cubic foot fridge.

The listing doesn't say anything about the size of the fridge, it just gives a huge list of part numbers which are supposed to be compatible with the parts, but no indication of which fridges they would fit. It's very confusing and I don't know how any buyer could ever know what to purchase. They are supposed to be OEM parts but there's a list of different brands in the description (title does say Whirlpool).

@bgt_masters_of_tiki_d-- your listing was linked to a product page for a Whirlpool Refrigerator Door Shelf Rail, manufacturer's part # WP2157313. But that was not really what you were listing (I'm not sure if one of these was included or not), so you should not have linked to that product page.

If the buyer made the purchase from the product page, then no wonder they didn't get what they were expected, or what they thought they had purchased. I'd say that is almost certainly what happened, because from reading the description they would not have had any idea even what kind or model of refrigerator the parts were for.

With the way you bundle parts for sale, you need to make sure that these listings are NOT linked to any product pages.

You can see the iid (item ID) for your listing in the URL for the product page it was linked to:

[vintagecraze50]

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@fbusoni wrote:

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@bgt_masters_of_tiki_d wrote:

I sold an item a couple weeks ago. The item was listed no returns. 

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You might as well be waving a red cape in front of a bull.

Because in the final analysis, the seller WILL compensate the buyer one way or another if the buyer is unsatisfied.

All the buyer needs to do is file an INAD.   And its game over for seller.

Is it not better to have the item returned to you before you process the inevitable refund?  And you get to sidestep an INAD -- which registers as a ding on your metrics.

For the life of me, I do not understand this mindset of disallowing returns and thinking that there is a way to actually preserve your interests with such a declaration... for the simple reason that a determined buyer who is unhappy for whatever reason with his purchase will ALWAYS get his way.  

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HAVING NO RETURNS ON LISTINGS NOWADAYS also sets you up for lower sales thresholds. People today expect to be able to return an item. 

[fbusoni]

@lacemaker3 

Thank you!  I neglected to read the whole thread. 

Agree that it is imperative to include dimensions of anything that is sold on eBay.

Citing a part number only is a prescription for confusion.

regards

[fbusoni]

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@vintagecraze50 wrote:

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HAVING NO RETURNS ON LISTINGS NOWADAYS also sets you up for lower sales thresholds. People today expect to be able to return an item. 

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And rightly so.

I understand that sellers have all sorts of reasons for denying returns.   

But they might as well be holding up a warning sign of sorts.

The reason I shop on AMZ is because of their return policy.  

And I NEVER return anything!

[bgt_masters_of_tiki_d]

I'm not going to waste more of my time getting into a pissing match explaining myself because there are some people on here that will blame you no matter what or defend ebay until they are out of breath even though ebay may have made a mistake and are at fault. I already proved what I said happened, happened. I don't know how or why things get linked to what ever you're referring to but I didn't do it, its something ebay must have done.  As for that particular part number that was linked, if you actually read my listing its in the description screen shot that you yourself posted its listed right there. So there is your answer. These trim bars don't solely fit refrigerators by if they are a certain cubic footage and it says right in my listing if you're unsure to contact me. 

I list the exact parts you are getting. The issue isn't how I listed something but buyers that think they know but don't actually know what they are doing and are too stubborn or lazy to ask for help. I know this shows my age but maps can be hard to read and understand depending on the person. If you don't know how to properly read one and you're lost, common sense says to ask for help, You don't blame the map because you're not familiar with reading them. And if you do there is your problem. 

If people pass me up because a few of my items don't offer returns I am completely fine with that. I don't want someone buying anything from me they aren't comfortable buying, that's sort of the point. What works for one ebay seller doesn't always work for another for many reasons and people that keep trying to beat a dead horse and try and push or judge others over cookie cutter rules of how they do things don't understand that. 

[gurlcat]

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@bashort wrote:

I really wish that ebay would just do away with letting sellers pretend that they have a no returns policy.

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-In some cases yes they pretend (while knowing better), while in other cases, namely new sellers, innocently believe selecting that option actually protects them from returns. 

Then there are the buyers who innocently believe they have no recourse even when their purchased item is abysmally INAD.  -This explains some portion of bitter feedbacks left, since those buyers think it's the only form of justice they can get.  And then some of them never come back to eBay.  

I get why some things should never be returned for any reason, but they are few.  That's also true in many BAM stores -and what do they do?  They simply have an "All sales final, no exceptions" policy on those categories. 

Why can't eBay just do THAT, instead of this screwy ... really CORRUPT ... system where innocent buyers can be screwed over if they don't know their true rights, and sneaky buyers who do know their rights can simply lie to a popup window about their reason to return? 

[robbie31415]

I agree that the buyer opened the wrong type of return and got ran over by it.

This is one of the return reasons I really dislike with eBay and it's harmful to buyers.

Because the question really comes down to WHY doesn't it fit? Because it could clearly not fit because it was described wrong or doesn't fit because they didn't send the correct size.

However, the reason they are returning it is because it doesn't fit so they select that reason, not thinking it was a remorse. 

Can you correct me on this... eBay motors treat's doesn't fit differently? It's not a remorse reason? I don't get why that would be any different than refrigerator parts.

[lacemaker3]

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@robbie31415 wrote:

I agree that the buyer opened the wrong type of return and got ran over by it.

This is one of the return reasons I really dislike with eBay and it's harmful to buyers.

Because the question really comes down to WHY doesn't it fit? Because it could clearly not fit because it was described wrong or doesn't fit because they didn't send the correct size.

However, the reason they are returning it is because it doesn't fit so they select that reason, not thinking it was a remorse. 

Can you correct me on this... eBay motors treat's doesn't fit differently? It's not a remorse reason? I don't get why that would be any different than refrigerator parts.

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I agree, the "doesn't fit" reason causes difficulties. Most of the time it would be better if it were not an available choice. Buyers make mistakes, and sellers take advantage by not providing accurate and complete descriptions. Measurements would have been so helpful in this transaction to avoid a disappointed buyer. Buyers should not have to ask questions or for more details.

I think eBay motors is different in this, because of eBay's "guaranteed fit" program that covers automotive parts.

https://pages.ebay.com/motors/ebay-guaranteed-fit/

I think that the parts-fit database that underlies this was a huge effort to compile, and I'm not sure how accurate it is. I don't think that it would be feasible to extend it to appliance parts, especially considering what the OP says in the listing about how the OEMs use the same part # for different size parts (and have extensive lists of so-called "equivalent" parts that aren't really).

[gurlcat]

Wow the vibe in this thread really changed from the beginning when you had an apparent mystery, to this last reply which starts with "I'm not going to waste more of my time getting into a pissing match..." (then proceeds to 3 paragraphs of vitriolic pissing). 

Nobody said you owe anybody here an explanation or defense.  I mean obviously it's only righteous that you got to keep this buyer's hundred bucks because they accidentally bought the wrong size and then filed the wrong kind of return, and are now stuck with a part they have zero use for, because your listing is utterly bananas.  Just have a cookie, or a beer or whatever you celebrate with; you don't need other sellers' blessings. 

[bgt_masters_of_tiki_d]

I find it quite telling that you guys are talking about how my item should have been INAD but you never once considered the buyer purchased the wrong item? Anyone that sells parts knows first hand some people have no business trying to repair their own item. The item was listed correctly and its far from the first time I've sold them, oddly enough ebay even agreed with me that it was listed correctly. Appliances are exactly like cars, you need the model number to find the correct part. However many buyers don't understand this and think they are all interchangeable. All Whirlpool Refrigerator Trim bars aren't the same, all Frigidaire Oven Racks are not the same, all Samsung Washer Plates are not the same. 

Some buyers will return an item and say you sent me the wrong one when in fact they made a mistake and purchased the wrong part. People anymore are so used to being able to return everything and anything no matter what. They no longer bother asking questions when they are uncertain or doing any kind of research. I'm tired of taking the brunt of buyer's unwillingness to read listings, look at pictures and ask questions.

On a daily basis I take time to answer lots of questions and help buyer's find the correct item even if its from another seller who actually do reach out. I take the time to explain why asking for measurements for a washer lid or oven door handle doesn't always work. I'm not psychic and can't help a buyer if they don't reach out and ask for help and have grown tiresome of the lazy buyers, who use what has become overly one sided return policies as a crutch when they are capable of walking just fine if you stopped coddling them. 

[tck210]

Well said!  And, eBay lets the seller choose various other criteria which in the end mean nothing?