eBay

joemygoodsness · ‎11-21-2018

I sold a Used condition guitar earlier this month and the buyer put in a SNAD claim saying that the guitar was not Mint Condition like described.

He proceeded to post microscopic details, photos of the guitar showing light marks (it's a Used condition).

eBay just ruled it in his favor and he took the money.

He then added 19 pounds to the return package (says he will soon explain why in his feedback), after I paid $75.00 to have to shipped directly to a FedEX Print center for further inspection.

My question is would it be better to appeal the case now or after I inspect it with my father-in-law (his guitar) Saturday morning?

beardedbovine · ‎11-22-2018

Hi @castlemagicmemories, I hope you don't mind if I respond to post 44 with some helpful computer tips!

It appears you are copy/pasting a post and running into some formatting issues. The poster's avatar is covering up half of the text which makes it difficult to see what's being said. In the future you might try this instead:

Copy/paste just the poster's written text and no other part of the post (avatar, subject title, message number, etc). Then you can manually type In post #XX Username said "quoted text here." That should avoid those formatting issues and make it much easier for everybody to follow the discussion.

If you ever need some computer/posting tips or if you see another poster running into similar issues just let me know and I'd be happy to offer some helpful advice!

Sorry for the semi off-topic post. Please return to the original topic at hand, I'm enjoying reading the discussion.

I'm interested to know how this turns out for the OP and what his buyer meant when he said he would find out why the return package was 19lb heavier when FB is left! That sounds foreboding.

ads*and*ends · ‎11-22-2018

What if the extra 19 lbs is a giant dictionary, with the word mint highlighted?

getitright1234 · ‎11-22-2018

@joemygoodsness wrote:
I sold a Used condition guitar earlier this month and the buyer put in a SNAD claim saying that the guitar was not Mint Condition like described.

He proceeded to post microscopic details, photos of the guitar showing light marks (it's a Used condition).

eBay just ruled it in his favor and he took the money.

He then added 19 pounds to the return package (says he will soon explain why in his feedback), after I paid $75.00 to have to shipped directly to a FedEX Print center for further inspection.

My question is would it be better to appeal the case now or after I inspect it with my father-in-law (his guitar) Saturday morning?

OP, this does not sound good, this buyer appears to be playing a game. It was a great idea for you to get the package accepted and returned in a controlled neutral environment such as the FedEX Print center. Should you receive something other than what you sent, you will have a neutral party testifying to what you opened in their store under the watchful eye of their camera. Make sure you position the package to allow for the FedEX Print center to capture what you receive on their camera as well as your own.

As been said before, eBay will not entertain this video evidence, however other consumer protection agencies might. And for those who do not understand, you, are a merchant and merchants have rights under the Consumer Protection Act.

While awaiting the return of your camera, I would be checking this buyer out on Facebook There is a strong possibility this buyer maybe on Facebook publicly enjoying the use of your guitar.

The good thing with this buyer, he already validate via eBay messages that he received the guitar in your listing; therefore you should receive no less than what you sent to him even if there are a few imperfections, his version of possibly less than mint condition.

trsbtsrj0 · ‎11-22-2018

Here we go again...

Yet another multi-page thread about a SNAD return all focused on some minor but irrelevant detail and then some assumed and presumed (and mostly hopeful but erroneous) outcome scenarios... Yet again everyone seems to be missing the key focal factor.

There exists only one reason for this problem:

A No Returns policy.

It's right there on the original listing, the absolute only relevant issue to this whole case is the No Returns policy.

That explains why ebay did not issue the return label when the so-called return was accepted / approved / created. The API quite simply does not understand "create return label" when faced with a NO returns policy.

It is amazing it even allows sellers to create returns, however it has likely always done so and I can only assume it is a programming error. It is why the seller was forced to create their own label, I have to assume that is something the buyer had not counted on as the buyer's original agreement was that the item would not need to be returned.

Whether that is why an extra 19 pounds was added I couldn't say but hopefully that is the extent of it.

If an item is black that means it is not white, correct?

So if an item is listed under a No Returns policy that means the seller will NOT accept a return, right?

Right, so why would a buyer dream of returning an item the seller fully intends to reject?

And then hope they can get a refund?

Who are we kidding here?

The buyer likely believes if they return an item to a seller with a No Returns policy that the buyer will be out of the item and the money because the seller will simply keep the item ... Much to the buyer's surprise, ebay will still issue a refund regardless of what happens to the item itself because of the MBG.

So....

Unless that buyer sends back the original guitar in as close a condition as it was shipped out in, the seller is MOST LIKELY in dire straights here... I have included a screenshot of the guitar with the relevant portions highlighted.

When taking the dollar amount, the seller's feedback and the returns policy into consideration I smell a bad ending here.

Yes, the API will still issue a refund even if the item is not returned because of the MBG.

The No Returns policy determines this, it's all outlined in the developer's flowchart.

It's software, you can't fight the algorithm here.

@joemygoodsness wrote:
That's why I will be taking video footage at the FedEX Print Center when I pick it up.

I am sorry to be blunt but from ebay's POV that won't make a difference.

As pointed out by another poster you may be able to pursue outside recourses.

@ads*and*ends wrote:
Video footage will not determine eBay's decision at all. They don't watch video footage.

That is correct.

Lets hope the seller in fact gets the original guitar back in as close to original condition as possible.

trsbtsrj0 · ‎11-22-2018

We wish to include the following documentation to back up the above post:

https://www.auctionnudge.com/guides/understanding-returns-and-ebays-money-back-guarantee/

robot-hands · ‎11-23-2018

@tunicaslot wrote:
The OP never accused the buyer of creating the light marks - he said in his opening post:
"He proceeded to post microscopic details, photos of the guitar showing light marks"

He's not placing blame on the buyer.

Even if he did it would depend on what "light marks" means.

If we are talking about pick scuffs....that wouldn't change a guitar's condition enough to bother discussing.

Anyone buying a new or used guitar knows they would be present. Even a guitar being played a few times off the shop wall will have pick scuffs.

getitright1234 · ‎11-23-2018

@joemygoodsness wrote:
I sold a Used condition guitar earlier this month and the buyer put in a SNAD claim saying that the guitar was not Mint Condition like described.

He proceeded to post microscopic details, photos of the guitar showing light marks (it's a Used condition).

eBay just ruled it in his favor and he took the money.

He then added 19 pounds to the return package (says he will soon explain why in his feedback), after I paid $75.00 to have to shipped directly to a FedEX Print center for further inspection.

My question is would it be better to appeal the case now or after I inspect it with my father-in-law (his guitar) Saturday morning?

What words came with these pictures. you wrote: He proceeded to post microscopic details, photos of the guitar showing light marks Did he open a not as described return and state, the guitar is less than mint. condition.

The buyer might have sent those pictures hoping you would offer a partial refund. If it is his plan to use the guitar it is very unlikely it will remain in mint condition very long, (its and instrument designed to be used) and with use there is a very high probability the instrument will sustain microscopic and eventually even more noticable wear.

FYI:

https://davesguitar.com/215982/condition-ratings/

CONDITION RATINGS

by Tylor on December 2, 2017 in

Here at DGS we understand the struggle of purchasing a guitar without being able to lay eyes on it in person. While we are always happy to provide an in-hand description of a guitar over the phone, we want you to have the confidence to purchase an item sight-unseen. While we have traditionally used the “Gruhn Method” of condition rating, we are updating our rating system to match what is used on Reverb.com to help maintain continuity between our selling platforms. The following descriptions will help guide you in understanding the condition of our Used Items:

Mint (Formerly Mint)

For something to truly be mint, it needs to be just shy of Brand New. Mint items should include the original packaging in most cases. If there’s any sort of imperfection, the item should be listed in Excellent condition at best.

Excellent (Formerly EC+)

When something’s been used a bit but is still close to new, you can file it under Excellent. For newer gear, Excellent items should be free from blemishes and other visual defects. For vintage items, there maybe some marks here and there, but the item is still in the top echelon when compared to similar examples. All Excellent items should be 100% functional in every way.

Very Good (Formerly EC-)

Very Good describes items with perhaps a few more cosmetic imperfections than Excellent but is still in great condition overall. With a Very Good guitar, for example, you might find some scratches, buckle rash, or other minor blemishes but nothing that affects the playability or function of the instrument.

Good (Formerly VG+)

Good condition includes items that are in fine working order but have some visual imperfections here and there. A pedal with scratches and dents on its chassis, a guitar with some cracks in the binding, or maybe an old snare drum with some corrosion on the lugs could all be classified as Good. All of these items work just fine but have enough visual imperfections to only be in the middle of the scale.

Fair (Formerly VG)

This would be where the various nicks and blemishes start to actually impact the function of the item. Fair items mostly work fine but maybe have some minor functional issues. Say you’ve got an old archtop that’s totally playable but has some neck warping that render some dead spots on the upper registers. This could be considered Fair.

Poor (Formerly VG-)

Poor condition items have definite functional problems that will usually require some sort of repair. Perhaps this is an old acoustic guitar where the action is so high, it’s practically unplayable. Maybe it’s a keyboard where some of the keys just don’t work. It could an amp that powers on, but doesn’t generate any real volume.

getitright1234 · ‎11-23-2018

@joemygoodsness wrote:
The wording is Like Mint Condition, not 100% Mint condition. I know what the word means.

Guys, please take a step back and relax. I have held Top-Rated status for well over a Year. I'm not trying to get "one-up" on a paying customer if that is the assumption here.

The fact of the matter is, this buyer was very hasty to purchase this item. He continued to ask me numerous questions about it even after purchasing it, which shoves every seller the wrong way.

I snapped close up photos of the guitar in HD and he obviously liked what he saw, just like ALL items I sell for dozens of my other customers. This wasn't misleading, the wording and the photos were very clear. But we are going off on tangents. That's not even my original question.

I have seen this many times before and it's someone who hasn't done their research prior to making a big purchase. I have won Buyer's Remorse cases like this in the past. I'm simply asking at what point have you guys appealed your case because it has been a while for me and I know eBay changes their rules often.

OP are you saying prior to purchase you sent additional photos of the guitar directly to the buyer. If yes, that is even more documentation to validate the guitar was in the condition the buyer so desired. The problem is: this buyer had no skin in the game, he can just merely say the item was not to his liking and you are out the original and return shipping. If you did send the buyer additional photo prior to his purchase that is something I would mention in my appeals process to eBay. It is unlikely you will be successful with eBay, but remember you are making a record for other avenues to support your position of seeking reimbursement of your original and return shipping expense in particular since you had a No Returns policy.

skin in the game

A personal investment, usually monetary, in the pursuit of some goal or achievement, especially in business and finance. If you want to find a company that is truly motivated to succeed, find one where all the executives have

skin inthe game.

Despite your investment of answering additional questions of buyer and sending additional photographs, this buyer had no skin in the game, he was permitted to be irresponsible with your money. This is why some sellers tense up and block buyers who repeatedly ask questions.

I just got a message from a buyer inquiring about an item I am selling, he asked if there were any scratches. Though I felt there were none to been see from "my" naked eye, I answered: this vintage item more likely than less likely has fine scratches.

lunalapin1912 · ‎11-25-2018

How did it turn out?

pingpong517 · ‎11-25-2018

well excellent used condition...is not Perfect used condition...BUT yes it is all in what the buyer will claim it meant to them.....
and if it came down to the difference...they were planning to rerturn it , and just know what to say....

pingpong517 · ‎11-25-2018

I honestly didn't think the shipping for a return could be more than what the seller paid---or should I say the seller only has to pay what the original shipping was....
ummmmmm

pingpong517 · ‎11-25-2018

"mint" means differently in different castegories... AND differently to each person..

In this case a "mint" condition ..USED item, must be really really really mint.... otherwise any ANY marks or scratches , makes a person claim not MINT... that is why wording IS important for a seller...in a listing... AND rule of thumb , one UNDER ESTIMATES the codition... calling it EXCELLENT would be so much better , than MINT.....and if you don't see the difference , than you don't....but you will reund because Ebay can't and won't have it in hand to decide...and they know the meaning mean different things.

pingpong517 · ‎11-25-2018

Mint is closer to "perfect: than a used item with marks...small or light...it still is used, so not MINT..MINT refers to it has NOTHING
AND DAMAGE...can be and mean anything...light marks, a small chip on the paint...It doesn't mean real damage...so them retuning it..it was used...so you can't claim they have to return it MINT....

and any picture won't help with this light and little difference...they won't look or see...they will just side with buyer..it wasn't MINT.... because it was used and there were tiny tiny, small small little little issues that the buyer did like....

the shipping difference, would be what you might ask eby about...maybe you only pay the original...not this increase...

good luck

pingpong517 · ‎11-25-2018

TOO many seller don;'t and have never read the policy...and understand ...Then plot along -- then think they are covered...because they said NO RETURNS.... as if that is the end all....
too many think and have never read it....but expect ebay to step in on their side....when it's written pretty clearly....

pingpong517 · ‎11-25-2018

@robot-hands wrote:
@tunicaslot wrote:
The OP never accused the buyer of creating the light marks - he said in his opening post:
"He proceeded to post microscopic details, photos of the guitar showing light marks"

He's not placing blame on the buyer.
Even if he did it would depend on what "light marks" means.

If we are talking about pick scuffs....that wouldn't change a guitar's condition enough to bother discussing.

Anyone buying a new or used guitar knows they would be present. Even a guitar being played a few times off the shop wall will have pick scuffs.

But i doubt it would be call "mint" in the store either... the buyer is probably being picky or playing a game...maybe to get more off....but i think the seller just didn't think about wording and how ebay buyers think and what ebay buyer do..... and I doubt he ever read the policy about ebay and returns.....his no returns means nothing when push comes to shove...but most think it is the stop to any issue....