Dishonest seller abusing system and buyer ends up getting the short end /w Feedback extortion breach

[greekradio]

Hi All,

I've been on eBay since 1998 and I have to admit it's the first time I'm faced with such an awkward issue. I'm totally baffled. And I would like to have some tips from others that have faced a similar issue.

The story began in late August 2023 where I bought a 2TB Samsung Sold State Drive for USD$205 described as "New Open Box, without original packaging" and a stock photo of the drive. Pressed Buy Now and made immediate payment via credit card.

Last week I received the drive packaged in a generic anti-static bag, and noticed a ton of scratches and markings on the contact pins from usage. I then installed the drive and run the Samsung Diagnostic Software (Samsung Magician) to pull the history, only to find out that the drive is USED!  3,443 hours of operation and 5.6TB written!

I essentially offered him to issue a partial refund of $100 to compensate for the street value of a used drive. These drives used go about $100, so I think that was a fair deal, to close the case (and let's not bother leaving any feedback, as if the transaction never occurred).  NOTE: There's NO threat or mention of "Negative" feedback.

I immediately messaged the seller and wrote the following:

(exact copy-paste)

======

From me: (buyer):

Here is a photo of the used SSD drive as I received. You can clearly see all the scratches.

1) You may refund me $100 to compensate for the value of a used drive (and I not leave any feedback), and consider the case closed.

2) Alternatively, I can open a return ticket for a full refund.

As you wish.

=======

Reply From Seller:

Hello, There's no way I am giving you a a partial refund amounting to 70% of the cost of the item, even though you're threatening and extorting to leave negative feedback if I don't give you that excessive partial refund (which is against eBay policy, very clearly - extortion of feedback to demand partial refund). The drive is brand new. You can return it. thank you

=========

Under this behaviour, seller clearly was acting in bad faith and not willing to settle. So I opened a return ticket and never answered him back.

I also left an appropriate negative feedback. "Seller Sold USED item as new-open box"

But the problems just began!

He reported me for extortion, and eBay put a strike against me and removed my feedback. Now I'm at risk of not getting a refund, because of a policy breach.

I wrote 2 times to customer support, explaining that I NEVER threatened seller to leave a negative feedback, I simply said lets settle and forget about leaving feedback, as if the transaction never occurred. Where do they see the threat in all this?

Seller is clearly acting in Bad Faith, and has a history to selling USED items as "new open box". Just the fact he came on top with "extortion accusations" shows he knows how to (ab)use the rules for him to come on top, and clearly has payed this card again to protect his rating.  But this is not fair!

From eBay customer support I get a bunch of automated messages and seem to maintain the Extortion breach that the seller reported.

This only encourages this and other (experienced) dishonest sellers to continue their bad bad practice knowing they will get away by playing their cards. aka mis(using) the rules.

Question: Is there any way to appeal this, and have the case checked by a real human?  Or escalate it to a supervisor?

Thank you for any suggestions.

[greekradio]

That's not a request, it's a suggestion I brought to the table along with another option that I was open if he's also ("may"). And at the end I said, as you wish.

The main modal verbs in English are: can, could, may, might, must, ought, shall, will and would.

MAY:

may1

/mā/

verb

modal verb: may

1. 1.

   expressing possibility.
   

   Let's stop it here because it appears that Dishonesty and Fraud has many supporters.

[bonjourami]

No matter how you spin it, it comes across as fb extortion. Which is a form of blackmail..do what I say or else.Nobody here agrees with dishonesty and fraud, you just dont like the honest responses you have gotten..and are trying to spin those too..to fit your own perception of your 'request'.

[greekradio]

---

@robbie31415 wrote:

With this shipping service the seller essentially sold it to eBay, so any refunds come out of eBays pocket and the seller was done with the transaction as soon as eBay received it at their shipping hub near Chicago.

---

WOW, I wasn't aware of that. So he essentially screwed eBay.

.. and eBay took his side.

ok...

But thank you for this valuable information.

Out of curiosity, may I ask what eBay is doing with all these returned items?  Are they being auctioned off?  I mean, the SSD drive is worth $100.

[robbie31415]

You can try and change the wording around all you want, however you will continue to lose your argument.

All you did was request indirectly, however everyone knows the context.

You can't do that. You can ask for a refund with return ONLY.

[robbie31415 · Accepted solution]

I'm Sure eBay has some type of liquidation.

 The seller is protected from refunding you, so a seller never will if they use this program. The seller is so protected from negative feedback.

The only person you can talk to about any returns or compensation is eBay.

[greekradio]

---

@robbie31415 wrote:

I'm Sure eBay has some type of liquidation.

 The seller is protected from refunding you, so a seller never will if they use this program. The seller is so protected from negative feedback.

The only person you can talk to about any returns or compensation is eBay.

---

This explains it all!

I marked it as "Best Answer".

And dishonest seller knowing the rules, definitely played the game "right".

So the message I understand is:  Find an international buyer to get rid of your junk, and don't worry about about the sale. You're protected on all counts...

wow!

I have some junk, anyone interested in the USA to buy them as "new open box", shipped through the hub? But careful don't get upset.. else, I now know all applicable extortion rules applicable to my favour! lol

In all seriousness... this is so sad...

[bonjourami]

"In all seriousness... this is so sad..."

Agreed..a dog with a bone comes to mind.

[downunder-61]

1) You may refund me $100 to compensate for the value of a used drive (and I not leave any feedback), and consider the case closed.

I would not take that as reassurance, I would take it for what it was, a threat.

[albertabrightalberta]

---

@greekradio wrote:

Hi house*of*paws,

Indeed I now realized that there was no need to mention feedback.

But there was no threat or any mention of a negative feedback. The intent was "let's settle and let's not bother with feedback".

The rules are clear, and they mention that threatening for NEGATIVE feedback in exchange for something is extortion.

Clearly this is not the case.

So the question remains:  Was there any breach of rules?

---

If I were the judge and you were the plaintiff, I would rule against you. 

Just because you didn't mention the word "negative" when referring to feedback, that you asked for a partial and mentioned feedback clearly implies that the feedback would be negative based on your displeasure with the item.

And when the seller declined your (IMO not-so-friendly) request for a partial you did in fact neg him is confirmation that your mention of feedback in the original email was indeed a passive aggressive threat. 

You didn't have to use exact words of "if/then" as in if you don't give me the partial then I will neg you in order to use feedback extortion.

[albertabrightalberta]

---

@greekradio wrote:

Absolutely.  From what I understood, the system works that way...

 The dishonest seller sold me a 2TB Samsung 860 EVO SSD drive for USD$205 in which he described as "New Open Box". I bought it, just to find out it's a 2019 model and 3,443 hours of operation and 5.6TB written.

A USED 2TB Samsung 860 EVO SSD drive, in a similar condition, goes for about $100.

I offered him to refund me $100 and I keep the drive, as used.

Was that unreasonable and abusive?

Again, I'm not challenging your response, I'm just trying to understand.

But moving forward, rest assured, I'll act mechanically, and jump on the "return item to seller" with not too many words involved...

This is the sad state of our society.

Let be it!

---

Ugh! You are NOT accepting responsibility for what you did wrong.

You state that you've been on ebay since 1998 so I would expect that in 25 years, you would have learned at least some of the policies. 

When you receive a NAD item, you simply open a return request. Although you have some history as a seller, you may never have had a return request or your selling history may be old enough that the rules for returns changed since then. 

When a seller has a NAD claim, we generally refer to 2 options that the seller has:
1. Issue a full refund without requiring a return

2. Purchase a return shipping label and have the buyer return the item for refund. 

There is a third option the seller is able to use but what is important about this is that it has to be offered by the seller. As the buyer, you are violating ebay policy by requesting it.

The 3rd option is to offer a partial refund but if the seller chooses that option, the SELLER decides the amount of the partial. If the buyer doesn't think it's a fair amount, the buyer has the option of refusing the partial and returning for refund.

But as the buyer, you do NOT get to decide the amount of the partial and IMO, a 50% partial is not one I would issue (as a seller). 

[house*of*paws]

While I understand that buyers requesting partial refunds has become a nuisance for sellers on eBay ... I'm surprised to hear that it's become a policy violation to do so.

There was a time that buyers were asked to state a minimum partial refund they were willing to accept to keep the item.  [This was at the time they filed a 'SNAD dispute' ... (remember those?) ... and when buyers had to pay the return shipping in all cases. ]

There still are times that a partial refund would appear to be a win-win situation ... especially when an item arrives damaged in transit.  The following is the message that I used to recommend a buyer send to the seller in that situation:

>>  I've enclosed photos of the item I purchased that unfortunately arrived today damaged.  I'd be willing to accept either a partial refund of $__ OR a full refund upon return of the item.  Please let me know whichever you'd prefer.  <<

[Note that the wording differs from the OP's in that there is no anger, blame, or implied threat contained in it.]  It seems a shame to me if this would no longer be permitted.  Ah, well.  

[monster-deals]

---

@greekradio wrote:

But there was no threat or any mention of a negative feedback. The intent was "let's settle and let's not bother with feedback".

---

It's right there...you even typed it yourself.

[gone.c-33]

The best way to go about a SNAD is to contact the seller and let them know your concerns. Then the ball is in their court. You don’t mention or partial refunds since while your intent may not be dishonest, it can be perceived as such.

If your seller offers a partial refund that seems reasonable to you, you accept it. If they don’t, you file a SNAD and return the item for a refund.

Once that’s over and done with,

you may leave the feedback you want as long as follow eBay feedback guidelines (no mentions of eBay dispute, no name calling, etc).

[randsimian-0]

Take ebay to small claims court for breach of contract for not protecting its buyers on ebay and also Sue ebay for Negligence on their behalf and file another lawsuit in small claims against the seller for breaching the FALSE ADVERTISEMENT OF BRAND NEW ITEMS, that were not Actually New. 

I'm a buyer also that got screwed over by Ebay and it's sellers on the platform ABUSING consumers by deceiving Consumers.

[house*of*paws]

@randsimian-0 

We all agreed to use arbitration to settle a dispute with eBay when we joined eBay.

Filing a lawsuit would be breaking policy.  

[BTW, this thread is a year old.]