Dishonest seller abusing system and buyer ends up getting the short end /w Feedback extortion breach

[greekradio]

Hi All,

I've been on eBay since 1998 and I have to admit it's the first time I'm faced with such an awkward issue. I'm totally baffled. And I would like to have some tips from others that have faced a similar issue.

The story began in late August 2023 where I bought a 2TB Samsung Sold State Drive for USD$205 described as "New Open Box, without original packaging" and a stock photo of the drive. Pressed Buy Now and made immediate payment via credit card.

Last week I received the drive packaged in a generic anti-static bag, and noticed a ton of scratches and markings on the contact pins from usage. I then installed the drive and run the Samsung Diagnostic Software (Samsung Magician) to pull the history, only to find out that the drive is USED!  3,443 hours of operation and 5.6TB written!

I essentially offered him to issue a partial refund of $100 to compensate for the street value of a used drive. These drives used go about $100, so I think that was a fair deal, to close the case (and let's not bother leaving any feedback, as if the transaction never occurred).  NOTE: There's NO threat or mention of "Negative" feedback.

I immediately messaged the seller and wrote the following:

(exact copy-paste)

======

From me: (buyer):

Here is a photo of the used SSD drive as I received. You can clearly see all the scratches.

1) You may refund me $100 to compensate for the value of a used drive (and I not leave any feedback), and consider the case closed.

2) Alternatively, I can open a return ticket for a full refund.

As you wish.

=======

Reply From Seller:

Hello, There's no way I am giving you a a partial refund amounting to 70% of the cost of the item, even though you're threatening and extorting to leave negative feedback if I don't give you that excessive partial refund (which is against eBay policy, very clearly - extortion of feedback to demand partial refund). The drive is brand new. You can return it. thank you

=========

Under this behaviour, seller clearly was acting in bad faith and not willing to settle. So I opened a return ticket and never answered him back.

I also left an appropriate negative feedback. "Seller Sold USED item as new-open box"

But the problems just began!

He reported me for extortion, and eBay put a strike against me and removed my feedback. Now I'm at risk of not getting a refund, because of a policy breach.

I wrote 2 times to customer support, explaining that I NEVER threatened seller to leave a negative feedback, I simply said lets settle and forget about leaving feedback, as if the transaction never occurred. Where do they see the threat in all this?

Seller is clearly acting in Bad Faith, and has a history to selling USED items as "new open box". Just the fact he came on top with "extortion accusations" shows he knows how to (ab)use the rules for him to come on top, and clearly has payed this card again to protect his rating.  But this is not fair!

From eBay customer support I get a bunch of automated messages and seem to maintain the Extortion breach that the seller reported.

This only encourages this and other (experienced) dishonest sellers to continue their bad bad practice knowing they will get away by playing their cards. aka mis(using) the rules.

Question: Is there any way to appeal this, and have the case checked by a real human?  Or escalate it to a supervisor?

Thank you for any suggestions.

[bonjourami]

Sure sounds like fb extortion and you are not allowed to ask for a partial refund because of that.If Ebay closes your case against you, you can always file a case at Paypal if thats how you paid. But you will be responsible to pay for the return shipping.

[greekradio]

Thank you bonjourami,

I fail to see where's the extortion in all this?

There was never a threat in the sense of "I demand you to do this ELSE I will neg you"! That would be extortion.

The case was : "You may issue a partial refund, and let's just forget about leaving feedback" and I also gave another choice to open a ticket! Nothing was forced or threatened of anything.

The intend is clearly not extortion, not anywhere near!

PayPal is not a party in this as I paid directly with credit card. Worst comes to worst, I may file a merchant dispute with the credit card, but the whole point was to settle in a friendly manner.

What baffles me is the dishonest seller coming on top, with no way to challenge this.

But really, does my initial message sounds like extortion? If it does, the intent is sure not.

But thank you for your input.

[greekradio]

If this is interpreted as extortion, the only lesson I get is...

Should there be any issue in the future, avoid at all costs a discussion with the other party, and act mechanically:  File for merchant dispute, and  return ticket.

This would have resolved the issue quickly without trying to negotiate in a friendly manner, and risking misinterpretation and ultimately an accusation of extortion.

The dishonest seller must be laughing at this whole thing, and confidence to carry on to his next victim.

I guess I learned the hard way. Oh well...

[house*of*paws]

Hi @greekradio 

There was no need to mention feedback in your original message.  It’s now a bell that can’t be unrung.

Otherwise, letting a seller know that you received a used item … and that you’re willing to accept either a partial refund of $__ OR a full refund upon return of the item … was fine.

Try to complete the return request with eBay.  If it doesn’t work out for some reason … THEN you can dispute the charge with your credit card company.  Good luck!  🙂

[greekradio]

Hi house*of*paws,

Indeed I now realized that there was no need to mention feedback.

But there was no threat or any mention of a negative feedback. The intent was "let's settle and let's not bother with feedback".

The rules are clear, and they mention that threatening for NEGATIVE feedback in exchange for something is extortion.

Clearly this is not the case.

So the question remains:  Was there any breach of rules?

[bonjourami]

"But there was no threat or any mention of a negative feedback. The intent was "let's settle and let's not bother with feedback".

But you didnt say that, you said, and "I" dont leave feedback. Sounds very much like a passive aggressive negative fb threat. Evidently, Ebay thought so too.

[house*of*paws]

@greekradio 

EDITED TO ADD:

If it means anything … I also mentioned that I ‘wouldn’t leave feedback’ in my initial message to a seller MANY years ago.  [I thought I was ‘reassuring’ the seller of my good intentions.]

While I didn’t receive the same response you did … I eventually realized (after reading many posts from sellers in the Community on the topic) that it was an ill-advised thing to say.  I never again mentioned the word ‘feedback’ in messages to sellers.  Just sayin’.  🙂

[tinsoldierunderground]

However good your intentions were, reading your message to the seller comes across to  me as having the appearance of an ultimatum.  You offer two possible scenarios, and you mention refund and feedback in the same sentence, which as others have stated, is a cardinal sin in ebay's eyes.   It's not right that the seller sold you a used drive, but opening an INAD case would have been a much better avenue for you.

[greekradio]

house*of*paws,

Exactly! That was exactly my intention: To reassure the seller.

But the seller came back pounding "I extorted for negative feedback". And he is hammering it to no end.

Which clearly shows his bad faith. I'm baffled.

I totally agree with you 100% that it would have been better not to "reassure" the seller and not not mention the word "feedback".  But let's take a look at the context!

What was the the intent of both parties, and what the rules say.

Was there any breach? The rules don't prohibit the usage of the word "feedback", or may be interpret as passive-aggressive as it may fit to either party, like said bonjourami.

If anything, the response of the seller appears aggressive and abusive! And just the fact that the seller spun it like that, it's evident he's done it before and knows how to play his cards to come on top.

Honestly, this is unfair.

This is why I would like to appeal it, and have a real human check it out.

[klhmdg]

@greekradio  Im assuming that the seller would tell the same story about the buyer who "demanded a refund" and held FB over his/her head.

You read the sellers response as aggressive. 

The seller read your "demands" as extortion.

Very hard to read tone into messages unless you know the person.

sometimes its best just to move on.

[house*of*paws]

Was there any breach?  Technically ... probably not.  Your initial message was ambiguous ... although it does come across as 'serious as a heart attack'.

It could be interpreted as 'reassuring' ... but only up until the time you left the negative feedback.  From that point forwards, it takes on a different meaning to an unbiased observer ... and thereby taints any after-the-fact explanation you might try to offer about your 'intent'.  

[I always tell buyers (and sellers) that mentioning feedback in a message is giving the seller a 'Get out of jail FREE' card ... should the buyer ever leave bad feedback.  eBay usually will remove the feedback (if contacted) under their Feedback Extortion policy.]

I'm not sure exactly what you want to 'appeal'.  Your negative feedback won't be reinstated ... but you shouldn't have any difficulty completing your return request.  That's a separate issue.

My advice is to 'stop digging' concerning the feedback and just concentrate on getting refunded for the item.

[greekradio]

I understand your point of view, and I thank you for that.

My first intention in the first place was to reassure and it was all in good faith. Mistakes happen. But let's settle in a friendly matter, and let's not worry for feedback.  I'm honest here: I was expecting a new item, I can settle for a used.. but understand that I won't leave any feedback.  I won't leave a positive, since it's not a positive experience... rest assured. It think it's pretty obvious.

And all suddenly the seller comes back that that I threaten with extortion for negative feedback... and worst, he lied, that the item was new, and used harsh vocabulary that the refund I demand is excessive and gave a speech about the rules and whatnot.

At this point it was evident that there's bad faith involved.

And I left a negative feedback.  Deserved.

Furthermore, in his feedback reply, he LIED that the item was "New and sealed"!

In his description he clearly mentions New open box without original package, contradicting himself.

Ebay chose to erase the comments, proving that he is wrong on all counts, and I got an extortion strike.

As you said, I'll just move on... and hope we all get a lesson from this. 

Thank you all for your input.

[bonjourami]

Ebay removed the fb because you lost, and received a strike for fb extortion.

[greekradio]

You're absolutely right. I got screwed by a dishonest seller, I received a strike for extortion for not breaking any rules and eBay removed the FB because I lost.

Seller WON! And has now more confidence than before to continue doing that. Actually the way he responded, clearly shows that he knows how to do his dishonest job, and come up on top as a winner!

And reading between the lines, from responses I got, I gather that what he did is perfectly fine!

OK.