Beware e b and pp purchase guarantee (void in my case because seller is a thief)

[green1eng]

I recently purchased some wine base concentrate from a very low feedback seller.  Two days later I got a call from a legitimate business who advised they had been losing thousands of dollars by e b sellers using false names and bad credit cards (which presumably seem good at time of order), with ship name/address from the e b order (me).  So seller has no goods in inventory (probably in China based on the pp account), steals them from legitimate US business, and until caught the e b receives the stolen goods and never realizes anything wrong.  

Naturally the legitimate seller advised he wouldn't be shipping the stolen goods.  I made a claim with pp explaining the fraud, and marked the site as fraudulent.  pp denied my claim stating "we found that this transaction was not unauthorized."

E b has banned the seller and removed the sites, and when I try to file a case with them they say Unfortunately, we can’t open a case for you because it looks like there’s a payment issue with this order.
Please contact pp customer support to cancel the payment. 

It has become literally impossible to contact e b phone, so clearly end of the road with them.

pp has a number to call so we'll see what they say.  Fortunately I made the purchase with a credit card through pp so my bank should refund the charge if all else fails.

I'm angry, of course, but mostly at e b  and pp.  Purchase guarantees by both are clearly worthless.  Henceforth I will ALWAYS use credit card for EVERY purchase, never again pp credit. 

[lady_madonna]

How did the "legitimate seller" get your phone number?

[7606dennis]

I wasn't aware that a wine based concentrate could be sold on eBay.  Be that as it may, I'm afraid that your story doesn't make any sense.  Why would a, so called, legitimate seller call you and how would the get your number?  Frankly, the whole thing sounds fishy to me.

[femmefan1946]

a wine based concentrate

My local supermarket sells this. There is no alcohol in it, you are basically buying concentrated grape juice, yeast, and perhaps sugar.

[femmefan1946]

You bought from a low feedback seller.

Some person, saying he was a merchant, phoned you and told you he would not be shipping.

• I think this might be a "dropshipping" scam, where the eBay seller takes orders at $x+$y, gets paid, buys the product from another seller for $x, and has the item shipped to the customer.
• In this case the other seller was paid by the "dropshipper" using a phoney/stolen credit card.
• The other seller could get the phone number because the "dropshipper" gave him the buyer's name and address so he could ship.

[femmefan1946]

When eBay cancels a sale, they stupidly remove all the information,including the original transaction number.

You should be able to open the case by going to the original email you got from eBay saying you had won.

Or you can get the transaction number from your Paypal payment.

So try eBay again.

If that doesn't work and your Dispute is denied, go to Paypal.

If that doesn't work, and your PP Dispute is denied, go to a chargeback on your credit card.

But do the disputes in that order. This gives you three ways of getting  a refund. If you use a different order, you will not be able to go back a step.

[toysaver]

"Henceforth I will ALWAYS use credit card for EVERY purchase, never again pp credit." 

I also recommend buying from sellers with a reliable feedback history.  That's why it's provided.

[1tuna]

if another sell called me and told me about a credit card scam or somethig  I would say''Thats great,take it up with ebay"

I am unsure why you would let an outside party direct your purchases,you are a buyer and are getting involved with a 3rd party who does not belong in the picture,if he has a gripe with ebay then he needs to talk to ebay

[myangelandmyprincess]

I'm not sure what went wrong with your PayPal case as the message you got makes no sense to me.  An unauthorized purchase would indicate you filed unauthorized so that confuses me.  I'm sure the problem with an eBay case is that you already filed with PayPal once you file with PayPal you cannot file with eBay.  The order to go in is eBay PayPal and then cc. 

What kind of case did you file with PayPal

[7606dennis]

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@femmefan1946 wrote:

a wine based concentrate

My local supermarket sells this. There is no alcohol in it, you are basically buying concentrated grape juice, yeast, and perhaps sugar.

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Interesting!  I'm at a bit of a loss as to what its use could be, except perhaps, as a starter to making one's own wine.  Frankly, I prefer my grape juice to be juice and my wine to have been produced by vintners with more skill and experience than I possess. 😉

[green1eng]

Yes, this is what happened.

Paypal was OK on phone call, changed the reason for my case and reactivated, will refund me if seller does not within a week or so.

The person who phoned me WAS the owner of a legitimate business (not ebay seller) who got my phone number from the ebay order drop ship address/info.  His business has suffered thousands of dollars of loss on this scam.  The foreign ebay seller (thief) will probably re-appear soon with a new identity and account.

[green1eng]

Thanks.  Good advice.  "stupidly" is a good way of putting Ebay's business practices.  I have been both buyer and seller for many years, they always get worse never better.  Trying to work with Ebay these days is pretty much impossible, I spent hours trying to figure a way to get a complaint to them but did not find a way through their defenses.  A few weeks ago you were still able to send email message for whatever reason but now, at least in this case, I hit a brick wall.  The legitimate seller has also tried to contact them (understandably, as this ebay scam was costing him thousands) and was unsuccessful.  

Paypal was OK on the phone, reactivated my case and will refund me in a week or so if the seller doesn't.  

I'm still sticking to my 'Credit Card payments ONLY' approach with Paypal from now on.

[green1eng]

Third party was being scammed by fraudulent Ebay seller.  I did not get them involved the seller did by using them to drop ship my order with a fraudulent payment.  See my other comments.

[green1eng]

Thanks.  Yes I had filed an 'unauthorized transaction' case with Paypal which was incorrect (I did authorize the transaction).  Paypal revised the case reason to 'not received' and will refund me in about a week if the seller doesn't.  I agree the paypal case is probably why ebay blocked further action on my part.  That doesn't excuse their policy of blocking and hindering customers and sellers from getting the help they need.   

[lacemaker3 · Accepted solution]

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@green1eng wrote:

...

Naturally the legitimate seller advised he wouldn't be shipping the stolen goods.  I made a claim with pp explaining the fraud, and marked the site as fraudulent.  pp denied my claim stating "we found that this transaction was not unauthorized."

...

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@green1eng, first off, I'm sorry that you have had to deal with this mess.

I also wanted to let you know that the reason your PayPal claim was denied, was because you opened the wrong kind of claim. An "Unauthorized Transaction" claim would have been correct if it was your credit card that was used without authorization, but you did authorize the purchase, so that was not the actual problem with the transaction.

In your case, the correct case to open (on PayPal only if you couldn't open it on eBay) would have been "Item not received". That would have been a guaranteed win, because the eBay seller would not be able to provide a tracking number that showed delivery to your shipping address.

I understand, from what you said in your latest post, that PayPal has changed the type of case, so you should be OK anyway, but for the future if this happens again, you will know what to do.

And, you are correct, it is always safest to pay for eBay (or any online purchases) by using PayPal, and funding the payment with a credit card, so that you have a backup resolution method if necessary.