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Lost over $500 due to forced bicycle return. How should I sell large items on Ebay to avoid this?

I'm an occasional ebay user that sometimes buys things and sometimes sells things I no longer need or use.  I've been using ebay for over 15 years.  I'm not any kind of commercial seller, I strictly sell things I have bought for myeself and either don't use or don't need anymore.  I have had over 200 transactions in the last 15 years with all positive feedback.  I have never tried to return anything on Ebay and I haven't tried to sell anything in over a year till this past December.  I sold a fat tire bicycle I did not use much to a buyer for an absolute steal at $1500, which was $500 less then appraised value along with around $400 in extra equipment as well.  I charged a flat $100 shipping charge to keep things simple.  I found out shipping a fat tire bicycle requires 2 large bike boxes and it cost me over $200 to ship it across the country to the buyer, so I ate that cost and still shipped the bike promptly.  Shortly after it arrived to the buyer, the buyer informed me that she has a business as a reseller and didn't think she could resell the bike for the profit she wanted, so stated the item was "not as described" and took pictures of rub marks on the handlebar where the brake lever position was adjusted, a microscopic paint chip by the wheel, and stated she thought there might be a bend in the rim (there isn't).  I listed the bike as used, accurately described the condition, and I had the bike fully serviced by a bike shop prior to the sale.  The bike is in exceptional condition.  I listed no returns due to the expensive shipping.  She filed an "item not as described" claim to force a return, I was not familiar with the new satisfaction guarantee, so I called Ebay and they told me to accept the return, send her return labels, and I could give her a partial return minus the shipping.  I did this, but when I received the bike back (Fortunately in same condition I shipped it.) I did not have the option to give a partial return, I had to give a full refund including shipping!  I refused to give a full refund as I sold exactly what was listed and let Ebay make the decision.  Of course, Ebay sided with the buyer and forced a full refund including all shipping charges.  I should have read the posts here first to learn that common sense does not prevail with Ebay!  I talked to a rep at Ebay about the outcome and they refered to the pictures the buyer sent as proof the item was not as described.  Ultimately I lost around $400 in shipping charges, and since I let ebay decide the case I lost the $150 ebay final value fee, and $45 Paypal fee.  All this because the buyer didn't think she could make the profit she wanted if she tried to resell it, which she stated was her intent when she bought the bike at such a deal.  The buyer also made sure to give me negative feedback that Ebay would not remove.  

 

I feel like I was just robbed!  Reading the posts here, I now see it seems I should be thankful I actually got the bike sent back to me instead of a box of rocks.  My question is how can anyone sell large items on Ebay with this satisfaction guarantee policy?  The loss in shipping costs seem to make it completely prohibitive.  Also, why does Ebay even give sellers the option of "no returns" if the buyer can just say "item not as described" for any reason and get free shipping both ways?

Message 1 of 13
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Re: Lost over $500 due to forced bicycle return. How should I sell large items on Ebay to avoid thi

And she negged you to boot. No returns does not mean no refunds,especially for a snad. And anytime you ask Ebay to step in, they will rule in the buyer's favor. I think I would have listed this bike as local pick up only,so the buyer can see it in person. I do that with all large items and have never had a problem.



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“Never pick a fight with an ugly person. They don’t have anything to lose.” ~Robin Williams
Message 2 of 13
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Re: Lost over $500 due to forced bicycle return. How should I sell large items on Ebay to avoid thi

Absolutely no point in selling expensive items + expensive shipping to No Consciense Buyers, Expensive lesson learned, sorry this happened but it happens to us all, the way E Bay now is.

Message 3 of 13
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Re: Lost over $500 due to forced bicycle return. How should I sell large items on Ebay to avoid thi

I see how this "no returns does not mean no refunds" is an ebay policy now and I get that for outright fraud had I sent the person a box of rocks instead of the bike.  It seems a dishonest person can claim anything is "snad" and ebay will rule in their favor.  I felt when going through the return process there was always this box I could have accidentally checked to give a refund and not have the item returned.  I could see how I may want this option if I sold an item I spent $1 on for $20 and spent $5 on shipping, but I sold $3000 in bike for $1500!  How ebay expects me to be lumped in with the $1 trinket seller I don't understand.   Also, I listed the bike nationally on ebay because I thought I would have a bigger selling audience, so the bike would sell for more and be worth the ebay final value fee and shipping.  Can someone explain to me why a person would sell on ebay instead of Craig's List if they are going to allow local pickup only on an item like the bike I was selling?  

Message 4 of 13
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Re: Lost over $500 due to forced bicycle return. How should I sell large items on Ebay to avoid thi

Im sorry this happened to you but the same criteria pplies to everybody,it doesnt matter if the item you are selling is a dollar or a million dollars. personally I dont use CL for pick up items, because Im afraid. been some bad incidents here in Chicago. I use Ebay and have for almost twenty years..no problems.



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“Never pick a fight with an ugly person. They don’t have anything to lose.” ~Robin Williams
Message 5 of 13
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Re: Lost over $500 due to forced bicycle return. How should I sell large items on Ebay to avoid thi

Never say this
Used :
Seller Notes: “Bike has been ridden only a handful of times. Has never been crashed. No signs of wear and could probably be sold as new.”

Never describe a used item as “new” condition

Local pickup does not mean a local audience. It means anyone can buy and arrange their own shipping.
Patricia
eBay member for 25 years
Message 6 of 13
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Re: Lost over $500 due to forced bicycle return. How should I sell large items on Ebay to avoid thi

Your photos don't show much and your description of the bike was minimal. A INAD waiting to happen.
Message 7 of 13
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Re: Lost over $500 due to forced bicycle return. How should I sell large items on Ebay to avoid thi

Any time you sell a high ticket item it would be beneficial to video it thoroughly and post a link to You Tube of the video in your listing, or ask people to message you to request it. I would also photo and video the packing process so they cant claim it was not packaged well. 

 

Hate to say it, but assume the worst about most buyers esp when it comes to very high ticket and very low ticket items. For some reason the low ticket items bring out the most nitpicky people ever. 

Message 8 of 13
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Re: Lost over $500 due to forced bicycle return. How should I sell large items on Ebay to avoid thi

 "Any time you sell a high ticket item it would be beneficial to video it thoroughly and post a link to You Tube of the video in your listing, or ask people to message you to request it. I would also photo and video the packing process so they cant claim it was not packaged well. "

 

 

Funny.

 

eBay won't look at videos or photos.

Message 9 of 13
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Re: Lost over $500 due to forced bicycle return. How should I sell large items on Ebay to avoid thi

There is absolutely NO reason anymore why anyone would sell a high dollar + heavy and expensive to ship item here, rather than a local site--no reason at all.  The only explanation is that some people are OK with rolling those dice--some get lucky and some don't, and that is all it pretty much boils down to.

 

Personally, I sold 10 pretty heavy items this Christmas--one came back and it was obviously buyer's remorse so I ate the costs--and I considered myself lucky--can you believe that? That is how eBay has conditioned its sellers  here--we literally are kept in a state of constant worry, our stress levels shoot through the roof when we see that message notification, and we are overjoyed when we only get ripped off "here and there" rather than have a really unlucky streak and lose our shirts. It is hideous--just some of the most reprehensible business practices that there ever were--and from a site that most of us have been on for over 20 years--a place we used to LOVE. Now we hate it (and when I say "we"--I don't mean those of you that are going to come onto this thread and spout off about how you disagree, and how everything is just SO GREAT for you here--I am talking to the "we" that are truly suffering, and are angry about it--so please spare me your tiresome attempts to disagree with me--it's truly getting ridiculous, because there is a "we" and if you aren't a part of that "we" then move on, please) And eBay obviously hates us too, as they never cease to amaze us with their new and imaginative, and ever-evolving policies that are designed purely to harm, fleece, or torture the sellers here. 

 

But that's my situation--your situation, and the main reason I am writing this, is much different. You embody the type of casual seller/buyer that eBay used to love--and why not? You don't sell here for a living, so you can afford to give someone a great price on your bike--you would think eBay would be thrilled (not to mention your buyer)--also, I see that you also spend here too, so you put money back in, and help to keep the boat afloat (and eBay gets paid either way)--you don't do this for a living, you basically just do it for fun, right? Well, not so much fun anymore, is it? To me, you represent one of the groups that gets talked about the least, but I think the casual seller/buyers like you are being way undervalued by eBay. They have to know that the rapidly changing and utterly baffling policy updates, are going to confuse many casual users like yourself. They know that calling customer service is a complete waste of time--the ONLY way to be successful with CS is to know policy better than they do--and most of the time, even when you tell them, they are generally unhelpful, as they must follow whatever whims or agenda eBay is adhering to that week. They know all this, and yet they have done nothing to help the casual sellers/buyers better understand this increasingly difficult to navigate site. You guys are just left hanging--and what casual seller has the time to spend hours on this forum trying to piece it all together?

 

I don't understand for the life of me, what could possibly be the benefit in alienating a casual seller/buyer such as yourself. You didn't mention it, but most people, after being taken for such a ride, would never come back here again--so another long term, honest, and decent buyer gone. Leaving an ever growing pool of bottom feeders.

 

Your buyer was a bottom feeder. What kind of person would put another through such expense and hassle--and blatantly admit it was because THEY couldn't make money off of their purchase--how incredibly self-centered and disgusting. The problem wasn't that you didn't describe the bike well enough, the problem was that they were allowed, with full eBay support, to "try out" your item--they knew they had no risk at all--no skin in the game, and they just plain didn't care--because eBay doesn't make them care. For all you know, her buyer fell through and rather than try to re-coup her money with integrity, and try to sell it to someone else (that might have taken time and extra effort, God forbid), she just decided to let you take the loss. 

 

Six months ago you could have fought this return and won--she would still be able to return the bike, but she would pay for the shipping (and I bet that bike wouldn't be coming back--no way). Especially since you have blatant evidence in your messages that the real reason she wanted to return it was because she couldn't earn a profit on it. As little as six months ago, a reasonable customer service rep. would have read those messages and seen that you were being taken advantage of, and they could have helped you--but no more. Now, it doesn't matter what they say, or how obvious the fraud is--eBay will no longer review messages, nor will they change a "not as described" return to a "remorse" return, and make the buyer pay for the shipping. That is why morale is so low, and that is why tensions are so high, and why sellers are so incredibly upset right now. And it happens to all of us here--think about it--that's a lot of liars and scammers out there--depressing, huh?

 

Please don't think you are alone in your confusion--eBay double-speak, hidden traps and pitfalls, being lied to by customer service (or not being informed of the consequences of the decisions that THEY recommend to you) are just the norm now days--and it is really a shame.  Your years here as a reputable seller and buyer mean nothing. And any idiot, regardless of reason, right or wrong--even if they are a brand new user, can rip you off and steal from you. And it's just wrong--we all know it, and just about everyone here is as upset, confused, and as horrified as you are--even though some will protest here on the forums day and night to the contrary, and will keep on singing that tune, while the ship sinks right underneath their feet--but trust me--you are not alone.

Message 10 of 13
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Re: Lost over $500 due to forced bicycle return. How should I sell large items on Ebay to avoid thi

Thanks for all the replies.  As I said in the initial post, I haven't listed many items prior to this one in a while.  Ebay seems to have changed a lot in the past year or so and is no longer a place I want to do business if I can avoid it. I have always tried to list honestly and accurately, though I have now learned I could do better.  Expensive lesson on my part.  Reading your replies has been therapeutic and educational. 

Message 11 of 13
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Re: Lost over $500 due to forced bicycle return. How should I sell large items on Ebay to avoid thi

"Can someone explain to me why a person would sell on ebay instead of Craig's List if they are going to allow local pickup only on an item like the bike I was selling? "

 

They wouldn't. Buyers on eBay expect the item to be shipped. If you list an item on eBay as local pickup only, you are setting yourself up for headaches with buyers who don't understand what that means.

 

"I listed the bike nationally on ebay because I thought I would have a bigger selling audience, so the bike would sell for more and be worth the ebay final value fee and shipping."

 

There are now several popular apps that facilitate face-to-face cash transactions. You may sell the item for less money than on eBay, but the money you get will be cash in your hand that you can keep, and not have eBay and Paypal taking part of it away from you up front, and then taking the rest away a few days later and giving it back to a scammer.

Message 12 of 13
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Re: Lost over $500 due to forced bicycle return. How should I sell large items on Ebay to avoid thi

Well Written well said, wholeheartedly agree 100%.

Message 13 of 13
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