eBay

academic.ealim.books · ‎07-01-2019

How do I file a claim and get my money back on an item that was never delivered to me because it was misdelivered? IF I file an INR, eBay will revert to the tracking info which shows "Item delivered at mailbox." It wasn't.

To preemptively answer the typical questions: No one else in the household, I checked mailbox within 40-minutes of the time it was stamped as delivered, their are no porch pirates in this neighborhood and they certainly would not have been around at the time it shows delivered as it was a torrential downpour and no none of the neighbors have it.

I checked with the USPS and the GPS tracking shows that the item was scanned delivered on a different street than mine. So the USPS messed up the delivery and isn't the seller responsible for their shipper and any errors?

I have contacted the seller and heard nothing in response. Seem like I have already expended energy that the seller should have done?

So how do I work within the eBay system to get a refund?

academic.ealim.books · ‎07-11-2019

@lightlily_arts wrote:
I understand that is is upsetting not to get your purchase but I disagree that a seller should be responsible for assuring delivery to the correct address. We don't work for them nor can we control what happens once we ship. You are terribly mistaken if you believe that Fedex, UPS, and DHL don't screw up deliveries as they all do. Then there is this problem with porch thefts as well. I always print out my shipping labels on eBay and they are sent to the confirmed address. I also purchase insurance for damage or loss of my higher value or fragile packages. Sellers don't have any control of the packages once we mail them and that is why eBay doesn't force us to refund when it's mis-delivered or stolen. It isn't even reasonable to expect that it should be the seller's responsibility to account for human failure. The carrier Insurance won't pay either if the package tracking is shown as delivered. Your problem is with the post office over these screw ups. I mailed a package on July 8th to a buyer here in my state (CA) 60 miles away, and when checking the tracking today I saw that it was currently in Louisville KY which is over 2000 miles away from the buyer and me. That means it was put in the wrong bin at the Regional Sorting station. Try writing your congressman to see if they can clean up our Federal Mail system.

If you really disagee with the above statement in blue then one holds a belief that I do not believe is supported by eBay policy or actions. You as teh seller ARE responsible for delivery to the address on the order.

Sure USPS, UPS & FedEx DO mess up from time to time. But that is all part of being in business! You have to have a contingency fund set aside for when these rare occasions happen. It isn't the buyer's fault that the USPS mis delivered. It isn't the seller's fault that the USPS misdelivered, but is IS the seller's responsibility to get the package to the buyer's address! So one can debate this until they are blue in the face, but the buyer isn't the one who takes a hit for misdelivery!

Porch piracy is a whole different situation and not applicable to the situation that started this thread. Namely, the tracking information, i.e. GPS data would show that the package WAS delivered to the address on the order. Boom! The seller is protected. It IS the buyer's responsibility to provide a secure location for deliveries. BIG difference from a misdelivery!

The point I am trying to get across and no one wants to believe is that YES, a seller is responsible to make things right in a misdelivery situation. The buyer is responsible for porch piracy because the seller can show the item was delivered to the address on the order. DO NOT confuse the two nor lump them together! Two different animals!

academic.ealim.books · ‎07-11-2019

@lightlily_arts wrote:
Why aren’t you doing as Trinton advised you instead of continuing to bash sellers with your ongoing tirade. Sellers did not enact this eBay policy and it was implemented to protect sellers You were given the correct answer right from the beginning. Ebay isn’t going to force the seller to refund you when they upload their delivery tracking information. If sellers became responsible for mis-deliveries and or porch thefts everyone would quite selling.
Suggesting that eBay ban small sellers in favor of big businesses is ridiculous as well. They aren’t going to refund you for mis-deliveries or porch thefts either. Everyone had told you what the current policy is and what you needed to do. Continuing to flame readers because you don’t like their opinions is a waste of time. This is a human problem because people screw up and whether you like it or not all shipping carriers are a service. They are Not our employees or agents. Your plumber analogy is apples and oranges as sellers didn’t go out and hire them. We pay for a Federally controlled shipping service. Meanwhile there are those who are adding another one to their BB list. Your seller had to respond to your claim because you opened a case. But they can’t do anything to help you and it will be closed in their favor.

Why aren't you reading the replies I have posted in the thread? If you had, you would see that a claim was filed for me and that the seller paid a full refund. The seller had no choice - I was covered under the MBG.

Sorry you think I am bashing sellers. I am not, just trying to get them to see the fine points and distinctions in the policies such that they can be better prepared for contingencies. But hey, I have seen this before with the GD program. Many get upset, fail to thoughtfully consider things and get emotional about their replies and even take post shots or make snide comments about the messenger. Then when called on it they turn around and call the messenger thin skinned.

I think what the thoughtful unemotional posters on this thread are trying to tell you and others is that there is a fine distinction in the Seller's Protection related to GPS data. If the data shows that the package was misdelivered, the MBG is going to take precedence to the detriment of the seller. You can kick & scream but that looks like the policy. So better to be prepared for this rare contingency than get excited about it.

What? The shipper isn't your agent? Huh? Oh jeez, why am I responding to this kind of logic. Go back and read the example I gave in post $52. If that doesn't clarify things for you, then I give up.

green-night · ‎07-11-2019

@coco9619 wrote:
@lightlily_arts wrote:
Why aren’t you doing as Trinton advised you instead of continuing to bash sellers with your ongoing tirade.

Ebay isn’t going to force the seller to refund you when they upload their delivery tracking information.
Unfortunately, eBay forced the seller to refund this INR case because
eBay found "evidence that an item was not delivered to the correct address."
It doesn't matter why the tracking number was misdelivered, whether
- it was a label issue,
- a carrier error, or
- something else:
If the buyer provides evidence, or eBay obtains (ha!) evidence, of delivery to another address even in the same city or zipcode, the seller loses protection from INR.

Decision:
This case has been decided in your favor.

Comments:
We didn't receive valid tracking information from the seller. We're sorry you had a problem with your purchase, and we're issuing you a refund for this case.

And that's what happened here.

I am just not buying this.

If I received an INR dispute and had a tracking number showing delivery, eBay would instantly close it upon my request. Oh I've only had about a thousand of them over the years, so call me crazy.

readabouthorses · ‎07-12-2019

So then I guess all sellers should just choose to ship Priority Mail (which comes with insurance), tracking and also add signature required. Add the cost of signature as a handling fee.

I once had a buyer who swore up and down she had not received the magazine I sent to her. The tracking showed it had been delivered. She ranted, she raved, she demanded a refund .... and then she admitted that it was probably in the 50 packages she hadn't opened yet.

I know that my Post Office would try to get any package back that I was supposed to receive and they delivered to a wrong address but I live in a small town where everyone knows everyone else.

Question: if a package was insured and the post office information GPS would show it was delivered to a wrong address would the post office pay the insurance if they were unable to retrieve it? If the person at the address it was mis-delivered to refused to give it back could that person be arrested?

academic.ealim.books · ‎07-12-2019

@green-night wrote:
@coco9619 wrote:
@lightlily_arts wrote:
Why aren’t you doing as Trinton advised you instead of continuing to bash sellers with your ongoing tirade.

Ebay isn’t going to force the seller to refund you when they upload their delivery tracking information.
Unfortunately, eBay forced the seller to refund this INR case because
eBay found "evidence that an item was not delivered to the correct address."
It doesn't matter why the tracking number was misdelivered, whether
- it was a label issue,
- a carrier error, or
- something else:
If the buyer provides evidence, or eBay obtains (ha!) evidence, of delivery to another address even in the same city or zipcode, the seller loses protection from INR.

Decision:
This case has been decided in your favor.

Comments:
We didn't receive valid tracking information from the seller. We're sorry you had a problem with your purchase, and we're issuing you a refund for this case.

And that's what happened here.

I am just not buying this.

If I received an INR dispute and had a tracking number showing delivery, eBay would instantly close it upon my request. Oh I've only had about a thousand of them over the years, so call me crazy.

Are you paying attention?

What we are talking about is a granular point in the process. One might be wise to make a distinction, rather than stand firm on a "one size fits all" position.

IF your buyers truly had GPS tracking data that shows that the item you shipped was delivered to another address, then you would be responsible! The point is that while guidance may say that the end point is the stamp "delivered" there is an exception to that when proof can be made that the item was delivered to the wrong address. eBay is not going to step in a protect you when the GPS data shows the shipper misdelivered something! Why can't you understand this?

Maybe your buyers were ignorant of the GPS data or not smart enough to find it? But to say that just because XYZ has never happened to you, and that experience represents ALL situations and cases, and it can never happen is just narrow-minded.

Look at the evidence - what eBay has said. Look at what eBay did - forced my seller to issue a complete refund! Why? Because the stamp "delivered" was not adequate in the face of evidence of misdelivery! This GPS data makes all of the difference and is a distinction worth noting!

Me thinks that GPS data wasn't available back in the Paleolithic era? But things change, GPS data is now here to stay and one needs to adjust to those changes! Don't be one of those darn legacy sellers, entrenched, unwilling to adjust, unwilling to see the value in creating a positive "customer experience" or accept that the world has changed and they need to change with it. I'm just saying...

green-night · ‎07-12-2019

Look at what eBay did - forced my seller to issue a complete refund!

You have absolutely no idea if that is true. I would bet quite a bit that what you received was a courtesy refund from eBay. Maybe there was something else that factored in (such as eBay had reason to believe this was a serial scammer) that had them depart from normal protocol.

Even if it appears as though the seller refunded you, that is probably not the case.

academic.ealim.books · ‎07-12-2019

@readabouthorses wrote:
So then I guess all sellers should just choose to ship Priority Mail (which comes with insurance), tracking and also add signature required. Add the cost of signature as a handling fee.

I once had a buyer who swore up and down she had not received the magazine I sent to her. The tracking showed it had been delivered. She ranted, she raved, she demanded a refund .... and then she admitted that it was probably in the 50 packages she hadn't opened yet.

I know that my Post Office would try to get any package back that I was supposed to receive and they delivered to a wrong address but I live in a small town where everyone knows everyone else.

Question: if a package was insured and the post office information GPS would show it was delivered to a wrong address would the post office pay the insurance if they were unable to retrieve it? If the person at the address it was mis-delivered to refused to give it back could that person be arrested?

OK, good! You are starting to get it!

The key distinction is the use of GPS data. When your magazine buyer swore up and down that they never received something, then you could have gone to the PO, obtained the GPS tracking data and the associated "delivered to" address. Then when that shows that the item was delivered to the address on the order, share that info with the buyer. At that point you are done.

Oh sure, anyone CAN claim they never got the item, but the seller has the advantage of the GPS data showing it was delivered to their address. At that point, one can be helpful and advise the buyer to check with family members who may have picked up the mail, neighbors who might have helped out that way. But sans that then the buyer is facing porch piracy and that is not the seller's concern.

You do not need to send everything Priority or insured unless you want to. Look, I was in your shoes. I was selling stuff that required a signature per eBay rules, so a significant loss in a false SNAD case. If one reads these boards enough they will find enough to scare anyone away from selling. But THEN I learned a few business techniques I could use and that allowed me to continue to sell. One can react to this situation by going to one extreme - insuring every shipment with USPS, or one can self insure.

Point is that less than 2% of transactions go belly up. Why cut your profits on the remaining 98%? If one sets aside say 5% of every transaction and keeps that aside in a cookie jar - then they have funds to use to refund when that 2% happens. Self insurance is much cheaper than buying insurance for each package. In fact, adding those extra insurance costs to your price might just price you out of the market or cut your profits to such a low level that it isn't worth it. So consider the 'cookie jar' fund method of self insurance. It sure helped me be less upset about eBay policies and continue to sell

As far as USPS paying out on a claim? I'm no expert in USPS, but I would assume that if their GPS data shows a delivery error they would have to pay. What happens to the person who got the package by mistake? Huh? I know this is frustrating, but this is business - one should focus on making them self whole and not on something peripheral. Does sending someone like that to jail add anything to one's bottom line? Then why worry about it? It is easy to get distracted and focus on the wrong things or things that do not effect your business.

Not sure, but believe I have seen lawyers post on these threads about an item being misdelivered. Me thinks the law says that the misdelivered item is thus considered "gifted" to the recipient and they are not obligated to turn it back over to the shipper. Is that moral, probably not, but appears to be "legal!"

Good luck selling!

beez5720 · ‎07-12-2019

academic.ealim.books · ‎07-12-2019

@green-night wrote:

Look at what eBay did - forced my seller to issue a complete refund!

You have absolutely no idea if that is true. I would bet quite a bit that what you received was a courtesy refund from eBay. Maybe there was something else that factored in (such as eBay had reason to believe this was a serial scammer) that had them depart from normal protocol.

Even if it appears as though the seller refunded you, that is probably not the case.

SERIOUSLY? LOL!

You have absolutely no clue!

So how much are you willing to bet to prove you are right? A G?

As I mentioned before, (did you miss that?) the refund came from the same PayPal account as the one paid. So either the seller send their own funds or eBay issued the funds out of the sellers PayPal account! Take your pick! So clearly not an eBay courtesy refund.

Now how do I collect my G from you?

green-night · ‎07-12-2019

@academic.ealim.books wrote:
@green-night wrote:

Look at what eBay did - forced my seller to issue a complete refund!

You have absolutely no idea if that is true. I would bet quite a bit that what you received was a courtesy refund from eBay. Maybe there was something else that factored in (such as eBay had reason to believe this was a serial scammer) that had them depart from normal protocol.

Even if it appears as though the seller refunded you, that is probably not the case.

SERIOUSLY? LOL!

You have absolutely no clue!

So how much are you willing to bet to prove you are right? A G?

As I mentioned before, (did you miss that?) the refund came from the same PayPal account as the one paid. So either the seller send their own funds or eBay issued the funds out of the sellers PayPal account! Take your pick! So clearly not an eBay courtesy refund.

Now how do I collect my G from you

Here is a news flash. Even courtesy refunds will appear that they are coming from the seller!

Isn't that hysterical!?

academic.ealim.books · ‎07-12-2019

@Anonymous wrote:
Hi @academic.ealim.books, Customer Service can see any messages you send through eBay Messages, which include photos you send to the seller. You can typically upload these to the request itself review for future reference. In instances where this is not an option, Customer Service can send you an email with a link to upload photos or to reply with those photos attached. Moving forward, you can communicate with your seller through the request and if you are unable to reach a resolution, you can ask eBay to step in after three full business days have passed

@Anonymous

First & foremost - THANK YOU for your assistance with this matter! I truly believe that eBay initiating the INR claim got this seller to act. Yes, the seller did issue a refund from his PayPal funds to me. Therefore, I am grateful! THANKS!

Since there has been an on-going debate here, would you be so kind as to clarify eBay's policies in regard to the particular case where an INR situation is backed up by GPS data proving misdelivery? Is the seller protected under seller protections just because there is a "delivered" stamp on the shipment, OR is the buyer protected under the MBG because the GPS data proves misdelivery? Or is it eBay's policy to issue courtesy refunds to any or all involved?

Thanks again!

academic.ealim.books · ‎07-12-2019

@green-night wrote:
Here is a news flash. Even courtesy refunds will appear that they are coming from the seller!

Isn't that hysterical!?

You just won't admit you are wrong will you?

I got an email from the seller saying they were issuing a refund. Then the funds came via PayPal. Is it eBay practice to go in to a seller's account and send emails like that? LOL!

Where is my G? Are you reneging on the bet?

myangelandmyprincess · ‎07-12-2019

If you got an email from the seller saying they were going to refund then it sounds like the seller voluntarily refunded not that eBay forced them too.

“Birth certificates show that you were born. Death certificates show that you died. Photographs show that you have lived.” -Unknown

green-night · ‎07-12-2019

I got an email from the seller saying they were issuing a refund.

academic.ealim.books · ‎07-12-2019

Oh jeez! Poe tay toe, Poe tot toe!

So the seller acted in the face of the evidence instead of waiting for me to have eBay step in. Same result!

If you look at green-night's points "a voluntary refund" is stupid and a bad business practice! Are you saying this seller is stupid and acting in ways that are poor business?

The point that I think needs to be clarified is that it appears as though eBay is not going to protect the seller when GPS data shows that the item was misdelivered.

Why speculate on the seller's motives when we can't know them?

So are you saying that all sellers should refuse to issue a refund when their shipper misdelivers a package?