mam98031 • Volunteer Community Member • Buyer/Seller since 1999
@gramophone-georg wrote:
@mam98031 wrote:Exactly! If I sell an item that I have listed as "USA sales only", I sell it and ship it to Connecticut- only to get a SNAD from somebody in St. Petersburg, Russia... how is that going to work?
As has already been explained, the seller is responsible for the return shipping FROM the address in which it was delivered to on the purchase agreement in Ebay / PP payment transaction. If the item is now at a different location such as a different country, the buyer would be responsible for return shipping.
Where did I ask about shipping?
Now that you bring it up, though... how would that shipping standoff end, do you suppose?
Excuse me! My interpretation of your question was about the returning of the item. Didn't mean to start anything with you. I'll let you find your answers, if that is what you want, from others so as not to cause you any concern.
@mangorunner wrote:
@ersatz_sobriquet wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:though it is possible to determine the location of a buyer when they make their purchase, this still would not be evidence that they forwarded the item. Buyers can set a shipping address that is different from their address on file or their current location; many buyers will have items shipped to family and friends, or have an item shipped to a location where they will be travelling.
@Anonymous
So what DOES qualify as evidence?
At this point, that is a very good question. What is the purpose of this statement in the policy? To what situation does it apply? How does the Seller prove that situation exists (if indeed, there is an applicable situation)?
Hi @mangorunner, this policy would apply when the item was shipped to another address after original delivery. I believe the misunderstandings in this thread are rooted in the belief that a) an item being delivered to a forwarding company means it was forwarded, or that b) a buyer's location at the time that they contact a seller with concerns about their purchase can be used as evidence that the item was forwarded.
Neither of these details are proof that an item was forwarded. Items delivered to forwarding companies are not always forwarded on, as those companies do have employees and owners that make purchases on eBay. There are also many forwarding companies that offer their services as a delivery location where items can be picked up in person, and some forwarding companies will even retain/inspect an item on behalf of their customer. I've worked directly with forwarding companies on more than one occasion to investigate damage that occurred in transit or issues with a different item being sent than what was ordered. I've also spoken with buyers who had items delivered to a forwarding company nearby while they were travelling and then obtained the item in person before returning home. This would not void their protection, nor should there be additional any concerns raised because of these situations.
It seems to me that from the discussion here many sellers would like to see protection revoked if the delivery address is a known forwarding company, and while this may have been the way this was handled at some points in the past, this does a) unfairly put employees and owners of said forwarding companies in a position of loss and b) gives those seeking to commit fraud an opportunity to send empty packages or items of negligible value to buyers once they identify the shipping address as a forwarding address.
To reiterate, as stated in the Help Page you have shared, items that are forwarded beyond the original shipping address are not covered by our protection program. If there is evidence that an item was forwarded, the seller would be protected. When considering if a piece of information serves as evidence, you can ask, "Does this prove the item was forwarded, or do I have to make an assumption here and say it was forwarded?" If an assumption has to be made, then it is not evidence.
@gramophone-georg wrote:Got it- this "protection", then, is the same as the protection against abusive buyers... it all depends on what eBay considers "abusive".
Incidentally... I keep hearing about all these drop ship company employees who buy on eBay. I'm just asking this out of curiosity- how many people have personal items delivered to their work address? Is this a new trend?
It is important to remember that a buyer that abused the return system isn't the same as being labeled an abusive buyer. That is two things. Sometimes a buyer messes up occasionally and will abuse the return system. But to be deem abusive, they have a history of doing this on a regular basis.
Ebay is never going to release how they define a buyer to be abusive. Only that if they get enough reports that prove to be true or founded, then the buyer could lose their ability to have access to the MBG.
Speaking for myself. When I worked outside the home, I had packages delivered to my work address. Safer and quicker.
@gwzcomps wrote:Oh joy I haven't read through everything, but I think I have read enough. No more freight forwarder protection because there is a ever so tiny chance the item may be getting shipped to an employee at the company. What a bunch of lazy excuses typical of eBay. You need your proof? Just look at the address! If the address is for a freight forwarding company with an account number then it is being shipped overseas. Maybe it is time to become a buyer since eBay loves to scam its sellers and commit fraud.
Let's be clear here. An Ebay seller on Ebay has NO WAY of blocking international buyers using US ship to addresses from purchasing from them, no matter what setting you set in your PP account.
When the block in PP is set, all it does is prevent the buyer from paying, it doesn't prevent them from purchasing on Ebay unless you have IPR on the listing.
So if you aren't using IPR in Ebay and you do the block in PP, then you will have unpaid purchases in Ebay. The only reason they are unpaid is because the seller is blocking them. Filing a UID would be completely unfair and an abuse of the system by the seller. To file for a cancellation due to buyer address would also be an abuse of the system as there isn't anything wrong with the address, you just choose not to ship to them. So the only real option is a cancellation for a seller reason AKA OOS. Which as we know brings a defect to your selling account when you do this, but that is the only correct way to do this in Ebay.
It is also important to keep in mind that not all international buyers having something shipped to a US address are going to a freight forwarder. Some buyers are here on work visas, extended vacas, long business trip, etc. And they are having something shipped directly to them at whatever address they are staying at or business they are working for in the US.
I've shipped to International buyers using Freight forwarders for many years without very many issues at all. I have far more problems with seasoned US ebayers than any other kind. Most often they are sellers themselves.
