eBay Policy Change/Seller Protection Change when Buyer uses a Freight Forwarder?

[mangorunner]

I have always been of the understanding that the Buyer loses protection under the eBay Money Back Guarantee when using a Freight Forwarding service.  If the Seller ships the item and tracking shows it was delivered to the address of record in the original purchase, and the address is that of a Freight Forwarding service, then the eBay Money Back Guarantee does not apply.  The policy explicitly says that "Items shipped to another address after original delivery" are not covered.  (Following the link provided, scroll down to the section labeled "Not Covered".)

However, in another forum, there was a recent post that indicated otherwise - or at least a new caveat/nuance of which Sellers should take notice.  Regarding their Buyer's return request, the Seller (poster) relayed the following details.  (I've paraphrased):

Called eBay and eBay said the whole freight forwarding thing recently got changed.  They (eBay) can now only reject a return request if the Buyer actually *says* they used a forwarder in an eBay message.  Apparently, the fact that the shipping address belongs to a freight forwarder is no longer enough.  The eBay Rep said that buyers are claiming that they *work* at the freight-fowarding company - things like that  - in order that they may still be able to make returns and file INADs/SNADs.  The eBay Rep said that only way to actually prove that they used a freight forwarder is with a Buyer message acknowledging that.

I had an obvious freight-forwarder sale the other day.  I took photos of the item, contents as packed before the box was sealed, the box, and the shipping label and sent them to the Buyer with the message "I see you are using a Freight Forwarding service.  Here are photos of the item as it is being shipped so that you have them for your records."  I received no reply from the Buyer.

Has anyone heard about this change?  Any recent experience in this area?  Is there truth to this policy change?  Are you now confirming the use of a FF with your Buyer via eBay message prior to shipping?

[mam98031]

Your responsibility and delivery time is to the address that appears on your payment notification.  Nothing else.  You have nothing to do with what, when, where or how it gets reshipped to a different location.

[albany_sellers]

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@mangorunner wrote:

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@ersatz_sobriquet wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

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 though it is possible to determine the location of a buyer when they make their purchase, this still would not be evidence that they forwarded the item. Buyers can set a shipping address that is different from their address on file or their current location; many buyers will have items shipped to family and friends, or have an item shipped to a location where they will be travelling. 

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@Anonymous 

So what DOES qualify as evidence? 

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At this point, that is a very good question.  What is the purpose of this statement in the policy?  To what situation does it apply?  How does the Seller prove that situation exists (if indeed, there is an applicable situation)?

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If you are highlighting their own policies to show why you should be protected, you're going to have a bad time. More than once I have had policy 100% on my side, and the policy was disregarded because reasons. Policy means nothing if nobody follows it.

[albany_sellers]

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@ersatz_sobriquet wrote:

Well there we have it. We have lost forwarding protection unless the buyer confesses. 

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Hold up there, turbo. 

Even with a confession, you still don't have protection. Remember when you could have eBay review messages and make a reasonable decision based on the evidence? Yeah....not any more.

[albany_sellers]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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Hi @mangorunner, this policy would apply when the item was shipped to another address after original delivery. I believe the misunderstandings in this thread are rooted in the belief that a) an item being delivered to a forwarding company means it was forwarded, or that b) a buyer's location at the time that they contact a seller with concerns about their purchase can be used as evidence that the item was forwarded.

Oh man, and here I was stupidly thinking that forwarding centers were for forwarding packages. I don't know where I ever got the idea that a buyer having an item sent to a forwarder in the united states while their account states they live in Germany could mean that the package was reshipped by the forwarding company to their home country. I mean, that makes zero sense at all!

Neither of these details are proof that an item was forwarded. Items delivered to forwarding companies are not always forwarded on, as those companies do have employees and owners that make purchases on eBay. There are also many forwarding companies that offer their services as a delivery location where items can be picked up in person, and some forwarding companies will even retain/inspect an item on behalf of their customer. I've worked directly with forwarding companies on more than one occasion to investigate damage that occurred in transit or issues with a different item being sent than what was ordered. I've also spoken with buyers who had items delivered to a forwarding company nearby while they were travelling and then obtained the item in person before returning home. This would not void their protection, nor should there be additional any concerns raised because of these situations. 

I mean unless their account shows that their based in Germany....buy hey, they could have a friend who works at a forwarding business who they are sending a gift or something, or maybe it's their Summer/Winter vacation location.

It seems to me that from the discussion here many sellers would like to see protection revoked if the delivery address is a known forwarding company, and while this may have been the way this was handled at some points in the past, this does a) unfairly put employees and owners of said forwarding companies in a position of loss and b) gives those seeking to commit fraud an opportunity to send empty packages or items of negligible value to buyers once they identify the shipping address as a forwarding address. 

Dang, so once again the sellers are looked at with suspicion without any evidence that is the case. We get to lose more protections because someone possibly, MIGHT do something, MAYBE.

To reiterate, as stated in the Help Page you have shared, items that are forwarded beyond the original shipping address are not covered by our protection program. If there is evidence that an item was forwarded, the seller would be protected. When considering if a piece of information serves as evidence, you can ask, "Does this prove the item was forwarded, or do I have to make an assumption here and say it was forwarded?" If an assumption has to be made, then it is not evidence. 

You will forgive us for being suspicious when many of us have come to eBay with evidence that would hold up in a court of law, yet is dismissed out of hand by customer support. I am not trying to be argumentative, but we have all witnessed how eBay weighs the evidence and what the outcome usually is. Somehow, even with all the proof in the world, we typically end up "paying the cost of doing business" while being told that the given situation is a super duper, ultra rare risk of selling on eBay.

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[technofuse_enterprises]

Hahaha. That address.

[maros9416]

Right on! The most astounding part for me is ' The buyer may be an employee of the freight-forwarding service ' and eBay bought that line!

  I have no problems with freight-forwarder services, actually I get rather large orders get placed through these services. Though, I did have similar experiences with JC Penny selling my listings through eBay marketplace. They hi-jacked my listing and changed the title to include 3 items per listing instead of quantity 3 for sale. I had to cancel all the orders, but they had to track down JCP for the refund because they placed the order on their behalf. 

[lakeland_music]

This week I had a shipping forwarding company make two purchases on behalf of a buyer. 
One item they did not pay for, which means the buyer likely did not pay them.
I opened an unpaid item case and they almost immediately paid, to avoid an unpaid item strike.
They requested to cancel right after paying, and I refused and shipped the item.  They then immediately opened a return case upon receiving the item, stating they changed their mind.    They abused the returns system,

so I reported them.  I hope their account gets suspended, they have no problem screwing over sellers just so they can bail themselves out of a problem they caused in the first place.

[mam98031]

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@lakeland_music wrote:

This week I had a shipping forwarding company make two purchases on behalf of a buyer. 
One item they did not pay for, which means the buyer likely did not pay them.
I opened an unpaid item case and they almost immediately paid, to avoid an unpaid item strike.
They requested to cancel right after paying, and I refused and shipped the item.  They then immediately opened a return case upon receiving the item, stating they changed their mind.    They abused the returns system,

so I reported them.  I hope their account gets suspended, they have no problem screwing over sellers just so they can bail themselves out of a problem they caused in the first place.

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@lakeland_music 

I completely understand why you did what you did but as you have now learned, if a buyer requests a cancellation, it is really in your best interest to comply if you can.  This can cause you more money because of paying for return shipping.

Your buyer did NOT "abuse" the system.  They filed an Buyer's remorse return which was kind of them as they didn't have to do that.  You could have cancelled the order because you had not yet shipped but you chose not to do that, so who is abusing the system?  

If you had No Returns on the listing your buyer purchased from, when you viewed the Return Request there should have been an option to deny the claim.  Sellers with No Return policies do not have to accept a Buyer's remorse return request.  However that could result in negative FB from the buyer.  

Their account won't or should not get suspended.  I'm unsure how it is you think you got screwed over.  This situation would have been so simple you had just processed the cancellation.  It would have only cost you 30 cents in fees and a few seconds of work.  Now you are processing a claim which takes more work.  

[connxcent]

Trinton@ebay

so i have just sold an item and googling the address shows it is a freight forwarder.

contrary to your post about it being rare for there to be issues with freight forwarders , I have been a victim of fraud involving freight forwarders on at least two occasions (both times eBay protection was less than helpful)

I have asked the buyer if they are using a freight forwarder and they have said yes . Would this constitute proof that the item was forwarded without making any assumptions?

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@mangorunner wrote:

I have always been of the understanding that the Buyer loses protection under the eBay Money Back Guarantee when using a Freight Forwarding service.  If the Seller ships the item and tracking shows it was delivered to the address of record in the original purchase, and the address is that of a Freight Forwarding service, then the eBay Money Back Guarantee does not apply.  The policy explicitly says that "Items shipped to another address after original delivery" are not covered.  (Following the link provided, scroll down to the section labeled "Not Covered".)

However, in another forum, there was a recent post that indicated otherwise - or at least a new caveat/nuance of which Sellers should take notice.  Regarding their Buyer's return request, the Seller (poster) relayed the following details.  (I've paraphrased):

Called eBay and eBay said the whole freight forwarding thing recently got changed.  They (eBay) can now only reject a return request if the Buyer actually *says* they used a forwarder in an eBay message.  Apparently, the fact that the shipping address belongs to a freight forwarder is no longer enough.  The eBay Rep said that buyers are claiming that they *work* at the freight-fowarding company - things like that  - in order that they may still be able to make returns and file INADs/SNADs.  The eBay Rep said that only way to actually prove that they used a freight forwarder is with a Buyer message acknowledging that.

I had an obvious freight-forwarder sale the other day.  I took photos of the item, contents as packed before the box was sealed, the box, and the shipping label and sent them to the Buyer with the message "I see you are using a Freight Forwarding service.  Here are photos of the item as it is being shipped so that you have them for your records."  I received no reply from the Buyer.

Has anyone heard about this change?  Any recent experience in this area?  Is there truth to this policy change?  Are you now confirming the use of a FF with your Buyer via eBay message prior to shipping?

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[go-bad-chicken]

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@connxcent wrote:

Trinton@ebay

so i have just sold an item and googling the address shows it is a freight forwarder.

contrary to your post about it being rare for there to be issues with freight forwarders , I have been a victim of fraud involving freight forwarders on at least two occasions (both times eBay protection was less than helpful)

I have asked the buyer if they are using a freight forwarder and they have said yes . Would this constitute proof that the item was forwarded without making any assumptions?

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@mangorunner wrote:

I have always been of the understanding that the Buyer loses protection under the eBay Money Back Guarantee when using a Freight Forwarding service.  If the Seller ships the item and tracking shows it was delivered to the address of record in the original purchase, and the address is that of a Freight Forwarding service, then the eBay Money Back Guarantee does not apply.  The policy explicitly says that "Items shipped to another address after original delivery" are not covered.  (Following the link provided, scroll down to the section labeled "Not Covered".)

However, in another forum, there was a recent post that indicated otherwise - or at least a new caveat/nuance of which Sellers should take notice.  Regarding their Buyer's return request, the Seller (poster) relayed the following details.  (I've paraphrased):

Called eBay and eBay said the whole freight forwarding thing recently got changed.  They (eBay) can now only reject a return request if the Buyer actually *says* they used a forwarder in an eBay message.  Apparently, the fact that the shipping address belongs to a freight forwarder is no longer enough.  The eBay Rep said that buyers are claiming that they *work* at the freight-fowarding company - things like that  - in order that they may still be able to make returns and file INADs/SNADs.  The eBay Rep said that only way to actually prove that they used a freight forwarder is with a Buyer message acknowledging that.

I had an obvious freight-forwarder sale the other day.  I took photos of the item, contents as packed before the box was sealed, the box, and the shipping label and sent them to the Buyer with the message "I see you are using a Freight Forwarding service.  Here are photos of the item as it is being shipped so that you have them for your records."  I received no reply from the Buyer.

Has anyone heard about this change?  Any recent experience in this area?  Is there truth to this policy change?  Are you now confirming the use of a FF with your Buyer via eBay message prior to shipping?

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Tintin is no longer apart of the eBay Community Team of employees. So he no longer responds to or answers questions on the community forums.

[connxcent]

Do other employees monitor this forum? 

[go-bad-chicken]

Generally speaking no they do not.

[kh-ornesh]

Hi everyone,

Due to the age of this thread, it has been closed to further replies. Please feel free to start a new thread HERE if you wish to continue to discuss this topic.

Thank you for understanding.