mam98031 • Volunteer Community Member • Buyer/Seller since 1999
@Anonymous wrote:
@mangorunner wrote:I have always been of the understanding that the Buyer loses protection under the eBay Money Back Guarantee when using a Freight Forwarding service. If the Seller ships the item and tracking shows it was delivered to the address of record in the original purchase, and the address is that of a Freight Forwarding service, then the eBay Money Back Guarantee does not apply. The policy explicitly says that "Items shipped to another address after original delivery" are not covered. (Following the link provided, scroll down to the section labeled "Not Covered".)
However, in another forum, there was a recent post that indicated otherwise - or at least a new caveat/nuance of which Sellers should take notice. Regarding their Buyer's return request, the Seller (poster) relayed the following details. (I've paraphrased):
Called eBay and eBay said the whole freight forwarding thing recently got changed. They (eBay) can now only reject a return request if the Buyer actually *says* they used a forwarder in an eBay message. Apparently, the fact that the shipping address belongs to a freight forwarder is no longer enough. The eBay Rep said that buyers are claiming that they *work* at the freight-fowarding company - things like that - in order that they may still be able to make returns and file INADs/SNADs. The eBay Rep said that only way to actually prove that they used a freight forwarder is with a Buyer message acknowledging that.
I had an obvious freight-forwarder sale the other day. I took photos of the item, contents as packed before the box was sealed, the box, and the shipping label and sent them to the Buyer with the message "I see you are using a Freight Forwarding service. Here are photos of the item as it is being shipped so that you have them for your records." I received no reply from the Buyer.
Has anyone heard about this change? Any recent experience in this area? Is there truth to this policy change? Are you now confirming the use of a FF with your Buyer via eBay message prior to shipping?
Hi @mangorunner, when the delivery address is that of a forwarding service this is not by itself enough evidence to say the item was forwarded - forwarding companies have employees, and those employees may have purchases shipped to the office. I personally have all of my orders shipped to my office, as do many of my colleagues and friends. When there is proof that a buyer has had an item forwarded beyond the original delivery address, they would no longer be covered by the eBay Money Back Guarantee. To withhold protection from a buyer, we do require evidence beyond the delivery address being that of a forwarding company.
I know this may seem strange, but years ago I personally spoke with the owner of one of these companies who had a case closed against him for a high value item because the assumption was made that the item was forwarded (don't worry, we corrected our mistake for this buyer). Additionally, many forwarding services will inspect and retain the item for their customers if this option is selected. I've worked with many of these companies personally when I worked in our Money Back Guarantee department. These are just a couple of examples of why we do not use the address by itself as evidence of an item being forwarded.
That being said, we can see if the address shipped to is a forwarding address and will consider this in conjunction with other details when reviewing the case to determine if the transaction qualifies for protection. You are welcome to contact Customer Service to review the specific details of your transaction if you have any concerns.
@Anonymous
Excellent description. Just one more question. Is it enough to show that it was shipped to another address if the buyer that has filed a INAD is shipping it back from a totally different address, likely an international address?
@papermoneyforme wrote:
@mam98031 wrote:I think that it really depends on what you sell. If I were a seller of electronics, I wouldn't want to ship to a Freight Forwarder.
I've shipped to forwarders on a regular basis for years. With very few problems at all.
Besides, there is no block available to a seller that can prevent an international buyer with a US ship to address from purchasing. So cancelling a sale that has a freight forwarder involved would be far more damaging to the health of a selling account. Well unless the seller wasn't telling the truth when filing the cancellation.
Yes there is.
Block all non US Paypal payments.
Then you are blocking the buyer's ability to pay you, not blocking the transaction from happening in Ebay. The buyer breaches no rule in Ebay. But the seller intentionally blocking the buyer's ability to pay is a problem with the seller. I've heard of sellers doing this and then filing a UID on the buyer, which to me is outrageous because it is the seller that won't let the buyer pay, NOT the buyer isn't willing to pay.
The seller still has the transaction in Ebay to deal with.
@thehonorabletrader wrote:Please let me clarify....
Every time I have called eBay regarding this it's a quick and easy answer. However, recently I have begun to reach out to the buyer asking them for a different address or asking them if they are having this reshipped as my shipping policy states I only ship to the US. If they respond and say they do live out of the country and it is being reshipped, then I can call and never have had an issue with them approving the cancellation. Most likely because of what the eBay rep just posted.
However, it is not "wrong" of me to do anything that eBay is telling me to do. If the issue is that some agents are giving me incorrect information and some are giving me correct information, I can not be held responsible for not truly understanding which one is incorrect.
That being said, if I call eBay and ask them if it is okay to take a certain action and they tell me it is okay, then they will back up what they say. I've had buyers leave feedback in those situations and one call to eBay that was 2 minutes long and the feedback was taken off without having to explain why I wanted it removed.
It used to be you could block a buyer from buying if their registration address was in a foreign country. Now you can only block based on shipping address.
The address the buyer gave me on eBay was not the same as their address in PayPal. So there is a conflict in protection based on that.
I've never had this discussion in the forum before so I have learned a lot of good information. I don't often sell phones so I will just keep shipping going forward and hope for protection. But I will call eBay if I sell a phone and someone tries this and see what they say. If they tell me to cancel, I will. If they tell me to ship, I will.
Things change so fast around here lets make sure we have the correct information.
@Anonymous
Is this OK for a CSR at the call center to cancel a transaction like this even when the buyer hasn't done anything wrong and not do it for a seller related reason or in a way that doesn't create a defect for the seller. They purchased per the rules allowed by Ebay, it is the seller that doesn't want to complete the transaction for whatever reason the seller may have, but certainly not the fault of the buyer.
@Anonymous wrote:
@mam98031 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@mangorunner wrote:I have always been of the understanding that the Buyer loses protection under the eBay Money Back Guarantee when using a Freight Forwarding service. If the Seller ships the item and tracking shows it was delivered to the address of record in the original purchase, and the address is that of a Freight Forwarding service, then the eBay Money Back Guarantee does not apply. The policy explicitly says that "Items shipped to another address after original delivery" are not covered. (Following the link provided, scroll down to the section labeled "Not Covered".)
However, in another forum, there was a recent post that indicated otherwise - or at least a new caveat/nuance of which Sellers should take notice. Regarding their Buyer's return request, the Seller (poster) relayed the following details. (I've paraphrased):
Called eBay and eBay said the whole freight forwarding thing recently got changed. They (eBay) can now only reject a return request if the Buyer actually *says* they used a forwarder in an eBay message. Apparently, the fact that the shipping address belongs to a freight forwarder is no longer enough. The eBay Rep said that buyers are claiming that they *work* at the freight-fowarding company - things like that - in order that they may still be able to make returns and file INADs/SNADs. The eBay Rep said that only way to actually prove that they used a freight forwarder is with a Buyer message acknowledging that.
I had an obvious freight-forwarder sale the other day. I took photos of the item, contents as packed before the box was sealed, the box, and the shipping label and sent them to the Buyer with the message "I see you are using a Freight Forwarding service. Here are photos of the item as it is being shipped so that you have them for your records." I received no reply from the Buyer.
Has anyone heard about this change? Any recent experience in this area? Is there truth to this policy change? Are you now confirming the use of a FF with your Buyer via eBay message prior to shipping?
Hi @mangorunner, when the delivery address is that of a forwarding service this is not by itself enough evidence to say the item was forwarded - forwarding companies have employees, and those employees may have purchases shipped to the office. I personally have all of my orders shipped to my office, as do many of my colleagues and friends. When there is proof that a buyer has had an item forwarded beyond the original delivery address, they would no longer be covered by the eBay Money Back Guarantee. To withhold protection from a buyer, we do require evidence beyond the delivery address being that of a forwarding company.
I know this may seem strange, but years ago I personally spoke with the owner of one of these companies who had a case closed against him for a high value item because the assumption was made that the item was forwarded (don't worry, we corrected our mistake for this buyer). Additionally, many forwarding services will inspect and retain the item for their customers if this option is selected. I've worked with many of these companies personally when I worked in our Money Back Guarantee department. These are just a couple of examples of why we do not use the address by itself as evidence of an item being forwarded.
That being said, we can see if the address shipped to is a forwarding address and will consider this in conjunction with other details when reviewing the case to determine if the transaction qualifies for protection. You are welcome to contact Customer Service to review the specific details of your transaction if you have any concerns.
@Anonymous
Excellent description. Just one more question. Is it enough to show that it was shipped to another address if the buyer that has filed a INAD is shipping it back from a totally different address, likely an international address?
Hi @mam98031, I can't say that definitively this would be proof, though it could be a strong indicator of an item being forwarded. Since a buyer is still protected if they have retained possession of an item when traveling or relocating, we would generally need more than just a buyer being in another location to confirm the item was forwarded.
Interesting. So we are held responsible for how a buyer may pack an item when they move it to a different address other than the original ship to address??? So the "reshipping" has to be done by a legit carrier?
@Anonymous
