Something needs to be done ASAP about unfair service metrics - Contradictory messaging

[standardrecovery100]

I just want to make sure I understand correctly. 

I have an 11% return rate according to the service metrics.

Thats 20 returns.

When I go through those 20, 13 were resolved as NO SELLER FAULT, or BUYER MISCONDUCT found!

the other 7 I couldnt determine the nature of the return so I went through the return process.

How in the world are the 13 that even ebay agrees were not my fault counted against me putting me into the very high category?!

I reached out to ebay support, and they had the gall to tell me those metrics are fair? My peers are getting 2% returns on my category which is used computers? Theres no way in hell thats true especially if they are counting fraudulent returns!!!!

Walmart gets 30% returns 

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/10/07/wal-mart-promises-30-second-returns-in-stores-where-amazon-cant.html....

Why isn't more being said about this unfair system? 

But the bigger kicker is the CS told me seller performance and service metrics arent the same

I showed him that seller metrics is litterally in a tab marked as performance and he ended the chat!!!

[ittybitnot]

When I go through those 20, 13 were resolved.....

@standardrecovery100 

That particular "metric" tallies all 'not as described' cases that have been filed.  It doesn't matter if they were resolved.  It doesn't matter if they were opened in error, closed, or you gave the buyer a full refund and let them keep the product for free.  They all count simply because they were opened. 

You are compared against your peers, with the assumption they will have similar problems. 

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/selling-policies/seller-standards-policy/service-metrics-policy?i...

Though they are often confused, it is different than the evaluation for Seller Standards, which deals with your cancelling for out of stock, or failure to take care of buyer problems and eBay has to "step in" and do it for you. 

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/selling-policies/seller-standards-policy?id=4347

[standardrecovery100]

"it doesnt matter they werre resolved"

---- This is why this ridiculous system needs to be removed. 

"you are compared against your peers"

2% return rate which includes foiled fraud attempts? No one has these numbers i promise you that.

"though they are often confused"

I am not confused, the email says this won't count against my seller performance in my email, and when i click the button that says performance I am being penalized 5% for high returns for said case which ebay determined was fraudulent buyer activity.

WHy isn't more noise being made about this ridiculous system?

[ittybitnot]

the email says this won't count against my seller performance ....

@standardrecovery100 

Don't shoot the messenger, please.  It is not affecting your "performance" ratings which are cancelling for out of stock, or having eBay step in on a case that you did not resolve yourself (aka cases without seller resolution).  Those  are  the Seller Performance ratings and are NOT affected. 

Very high in the "metrics" section (different from the seller performance section) will indeed be rewarded with "final value fee punishment camp"  of the 5% simply because they were opened and you got more than everyone else. 

I am not saying I agree with the procedure, just outlining what it is.  

[theteamsetguy]

@standardrecovery100 ,

Like other sellers have posted selection metrics and service standards are often times misunderstood by seller. When you have high INAD returns it is because more of your customers are opening up INAD returns than your peers.

Since you don’t offer returns savvy buyers have figured a way around your NO RETURNS policy by opening INAD return cases under eBay’s MBG policy for buyers. If a seller gets too many INAD cases opened against them ebay will eventually impose a 5% FVF penalty. In others words instead of 12.50% FVF the seller will charged 17.50% FVF.

I know a seller that was in your situation except they were already being charged the 5% penalty. They got out of the penalty box by switching to free 30 day returns. In addition they had some small thank you cards printed which let every buyer know they offered 30 day free returns with instructions to reach out them before they opened return thru eBay and inserted a card with each order. Once, buyer contacted them they would try and resolve any issues with buyer. If the buyer wanted to return just because they changed their mind they would give the buyer instructions on how to open a buyers remorse return thru eBay. The sellers INAD returns dropped and they were no longer getting the 5% penalty. Their returns went up but their INAD returns dropped.

[theteamsetguy]

@standardrecovery100 ,

My INAD return rate is .10% or less than one tenth of one percent. I offer free returns so I don’t have sellers with buyers remorse opening INAD returns so they don’t have to pay for their return. 

I just look at buyers remorse returns as a cost doing business. The costs are a tax write off by the way.

[mn467462]

There's a lot of selling platforms. Ebay may not be the right one for you. 

[1tuna]

what ebay means when they say that is that they wont give you an unresolved defect

unresolved defect is a like a super defect

an unresolved defect is much more potent that a generic SNAD

I often get 20 retuurns a year and all of them are SNAD but all were resolved

those 20 keep my rate at 1% for 2000 sales but sometimes you get more in one quarter than another

the place you are looking at is the correct place to really evaluate them

good luck

@standardrecovery100 

[michigancolor]

I hear what you're saying about Service Metrics being under the Performance tab, and the email saying it won't count against your "performance".  Unfortunately, that's now what eBay means, and when they said something that's different than how they operate, you just can't get them to honor it.  This counting of the cases as soon as they're opened is intentional.  Unfortunately, it generates extra revenue for eBay, so I'm not sure they have much of an incentive to fix it.

As a statistics guru, I can give my thoughts about the peer ratings.  There's an absurdly large number of ways to calculate the peer statistics, especially since they're determining your peer group without letting sellers view it.  We don't know how accurate the peer selection is.  My guess because it seems like the peer average is almost always absurdly low is that they're lumping you and others who complain about this in with sellers who sold a low number of items.  The 10 sellers who each sold 1 used computer and got no returns are bringing the average down.  Again, this is a guess, and I could make other guesses.  But, I'm guessing they aren't weighting the peer group and it's flooded with sellers with little to no sales bringing the average down toward zero.  The same thing happens on item not received cases.  People are given peer percentages of like 0.1%.  There's no way that's accurate.  1 in 1000 sales getting a not received case opened?  I'd love it it was that rare!

This is only not a larger issue than it is because there has to be 10 cases of the same type (INAD per category, or not received as a whole) in the evaluation period (1 year or 3 months.)
It's unfortunately a cost of business at the moment if you sell used computer equipment.  There are ways to avoid this.  You could sell less items so you don't hit 10 INAD's in an evaluation period.  😞  The better way would be to get up to 400 sales within a 3 month period by adding things that won't often get INADs.  This would make your evaluation period 3 months, and hopefully you wouldn't have 10 INADs in the past 3 months so even if you were rated Very High, there wouldn't be consequences.

I totally agree with everything you said.  Just saying how it is.  I complain to eBay as well about this broken system, especially that item not received cases cannot be removed even if the buyer admits it was delivered before the case was opened.

[michigancolor]

@theteamsetguy 

Sports Cards != Used Computer Equipment.

[michigancolor]

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@standardrecovery100 wrote:

...

WHy isn't more noise being made about this ridiculous system?

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Because after yelling about it for years, others have gotten tired of screaming.

[stuff4divas]

@standardrecovery100   I made a big deal out of my service metrics a few years ago when there were 2 counted against me.

One bc the buyer opened as 'not as described' bc of measurements. I pointed out the measurements were posted in 4 different areas and the buyer apologized and said she wanted to change the reason for the return but eBay would not budge.

The other for another false reason which was admitted to by the buyer in messages. Again eBay would not budge and said I was still in the 'Low' category so I was not being affected. I told them, yes, for now, but if I got a few more it would push me into the 'Average' category. I was told that it would still be OK to be in that category 🙄

I went round and round with these at several different levels of assorted communications. In the end, I was told that once the hit is made on service metrics, it cannot be removed 🙄

[grandmasjewelry123]

Good luck trying to get the ebay bots to change anything. They have their boxes and if you don't fit into their box then its your problem. The only thing that lives in boxes are dead people. Living people don't live in boxes.

And this will be the downfall of ebay. The standardization of the seller. I have a similar issue with ebay.

[lakefor94]

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@michigancolor wrote:

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@standardrecovery100 wrote:

...

WHy isn't more noise being made about this ridiculous system?

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Because after yelling about it for years, others have gotten tired of screaming.

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@standardrecovery100  there was quite a bit of noise about it when sellers first started getting hit with the extra 5% FVF back in 2018 or thereabouts. 

Now I see a just a post or two every week similar to your OP.

I have been riding the Free Returns train. Just don't see that many INAD's these days or many returns for that matter. 

[theteamsetguy]

@michigancolor ,

That is why ebay compares you to peers. The OP's peers average INAD returns average is 2.61%. My peers are less than .25% more than 10 time less.