Seller Ships Real Rolex, Buyer says it is Counterfeit

[eleetcomputer]

Hello Everyone,

I want to thank everyone in advance for any help or suggestions you might have as this situation is MAJOR and has me literally SICK!  I recently started selling some high valued items in the past month. Mainly high end computer components.   I have been an eBay member for about 7-8 years. Anyway, I listed my Rolex Yachtmaster a couple weeks ago.  Attached are all of the pictures that were included in the listing along with extras.  I sent the package via FedEx, Insured for the sale amount, as well as Adult Signature.   Here is the MAJOR problem.  The Buyer is claiming it is a counterfeit Rolex and requested a return.   I looked at the tracking info and saw it was delivered and signed for by someone other than the buyer.  I had promptly replied to him, baffled yet polite, and asked if the person who signed for it was a room mate, family member, mail room, etc.  I asked  the buyer to send pictures of everything that he received, shipping container, watch box, certificates, tags, etc. So that I could see the box and if it appeared to be tampered with.  If it was tampered with, I would be able to see in the photos of the shipping packaging since I used special tape.  I never received a reply from the buyer.  All that was sent were these 3 photos when he first requested the return. I attempted to contact him twice thru eBay.  I also tried to call his cellphone and even looked him up on facebook so I could try to get ahold of him.  No contact was made.  I even called eBay and inquired about what I should do because what he was claiming, wasn't what I shipped him.  eBay informed me to wait until a case was opened!  They offered no other resolution other than to accept the return and refund him.  Of course, I'm not going to accept the return and refund him and get back a fake watch when he was shipped a genuine Rolex.  Yesterday, the Buyer opened a case against me stating that the watch "doesn't seem authentic".  I had contacted the high value claims dept. after they emailed me stating they were going to refund him and they stated the best thing to do is accept the return and then open a case against the buyer if he does not send back the original item.  I have never had a problem on eBay until now.  I don't know if the Buyer is attempting to fraudulently return the watch and get his money back, or if the package was tampered with and the item was replaced with a different item.  I find it HIGHLY unlikely for FedEx to do something like that with as many cameras there are in these places. I also find it EXTREMELY unlikely that FedEx would have a counterfeit Rolex laying around to swap out the real one.  In being professional, I didn't want to come right out and accuse the buyer of attempting to scam me, hence why I asked for photos of the packaging.  So at this point, I contacted eBay again and asked for a return shipping label to be issued via eBay since I couldn't send a label because it is now an open case. 

I have since removed all of my items for sale since it appears to be very easy for buyers to open cases against sellers and get their stuff for free, especially when they see the seller just started listing things and isn't a power seller or a big store.  The horror stories that I've been reading on these forums is scary.  What does a seller due to protect him or herself?  Am I handling this the proper way?  Any tips and advice would be greatly appreciated.  Thank again.

FAKE WATCH - BUYER PHOTOFAKE WATCH - BUYER PHOTOFAKE WATCH - BUYER PHOTO

GENUINE ROLEX - WHAT I SHIPPEDGENUINE ROLEX - WHAT I SHIPPED

[e-accessory-shack]

I'm sorry this happened to you.  There isn't a lot you can do.  eBay sides with the buyer almost no matter what.  There is an innate level of risk associated with selling on eBay these days.  Whenever I have items of high value I need to sell I turn to local markets now.  Buyers know how to work the system to scam sellers.  It's not worth the risk anymore.   I used to sell mini computers on eBay but I got ripped of too many times so I stopped selling anything valued at over $50.   One time a buyer sent me back a box of dirty diapers instead of the mini computer the buyer bought.  I called eBay with photographic evidence and they just said "we don't get involved when this happens".   So, eBay doesn't get involved when there is fraud against seller, but they will step in and give all money back to the buyer for almost any reason.  It's very unfair, but it's the way the marketplace has evolved.   Good luck to you. 

[escuintla]

I hope Ebay is reading you. 

This is a way to make Ebay notified that many sellers are not listing high pricey items. That is less revenue and less sellers interested on the brand Ebay. The end.

[extrememobility]

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@eleetcomputer wrote:

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@extrememobility wrote:

Today i was talking with friends about your dilemma and one suggested using and outside shipper like the UPS store to pack and ship high value items as neutral source and as verification(or witness)  for sellers, this way you have proof you sent the listed item that Ebay cannot dispute.

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I agree and will be doing this in the future with my high valued items.  For now, I am not going to be selling anything for awhile since many members have stated the Buyer can still appeal the case after it is closed.  I would hate to list my items, have them sell, only to have my PP frozen again because the buyer appealed the decision.  Make sense?  Another individual said this could go on for a few months until it is final.  Also, at the moment, my account is just a personal account.  I have a business account but never used it.  Is there any advantages to using a business account over a personal account for selling?  For ease, I just stuck with my personal account since all my payment methods were already added and setup. 

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A business account is all i use for PayPal due to other revenue from outside of Ebay  , otherwise if i was just using it for Ebay i likely would not need more than personal account. It`s kinda like the more you pay, the more your worth? if you get my meaning?

[eleetcomputer]

eBay has already ruled the case as a fraudulent return and decided in my favor. I filed with my local police as per ebay's instructions and at the suggestion of many community members and am waiting on a copy of the incident report to forward to eBay to complete the case. I am very thankful they ruled appropriately.  That is so crazy about the diapers.  I'm sorry to hear that happened to you.  I have heard of people getting boxes of rocks back instead of the item, but not dirty diapers.  People amaze me how disgusting and hateful they can be. 

[blueeggsandspam]

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@eleetcomputer wrote:

eBay has already ruled the case as a fraudulent return and decided in my favor. I filed with my local police as per ebay's instructions and at the suggestion of many community members and am waiting on a copy of the incident report to forward to eBay to complete the case. I am very thankful they ruled appropriately.  That is so crazy about the diapers.  I'm sorry to hear that happened to you.  I have heard of people getting boxes of rocks back instead of the item, but not dirty diapers.  People amaze me how disgusting and hateful they can be. 

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@eleetcomputer 

Don't forget to file the mail fraud complaint with the US Postal Inspectors. This "buyer" needs to be on their radar, if he isn't already.

info:  https://postalinspectors.uspis.gov/investigations/MailFraud/MailFraud.aspx 

[moms**art**window**]

Now your only hope is postal inspector's investigation (buyer has already broken the law you need to file complaint now you must do this they will follow up you might want to do it now while in shipment and boldly put a copy of your complaint on the return claim) It's a Federal crime,you have to work quickly to get a police report/postal inspector report before the 2 day refund limit maybe ask for more days on refunding so you can build your case,this will boost your credibility that faced a Fed and righteous enough to make a complaint,i wouldn't cut and run it's pay me now or pay me later this would damage your credibility far more than the cost of the watch.To bad there isn't a trusted service to validate items mid-shipment or at least a photo taken by shipper when packaged by a shipper such as FedEx they should do this anyway on high dollar insured items to protect themselves,

[eleetcomputer]

Hello everyone. I have some terrible news.  After being told by several ebay reps during the process that this was a fraudulent return and they ruled in my favor, their swat team ended up over turning the decision.  I did everything they asked me to do.  I have video evidence of packing the genuine item and shipping it out as well as video of receiving the fake watch at the local post office.  I even supplied a police report as they requested.  They gave no reason as to why they changed their decision.  Their explanation was "at this point it is really your word against the buyer."  Now wouldn't that work the same way for the seller?  It really doesn't make sense, I've provided photographic and video evidence, police reports and did everything by the book that they requested.  I have already withdrew my funds to my bank account weeks ago. so I am whole in that sense.  My PP is now in the negative.  I have no bank account or credit card on file with that PP account.  I removed them once I saw this turning south and from the comments of the community stating that eBay most always sides with the buyer.  My question is is there anything I can do at this point? Also, since there is no payment information in my PayPal account can PayPal still charge me the negative balance to any of the accounts that were previously on file?  I spoke with my attorney and was told that eBay or PP cannot ruin my excellent credit because there is no SS # attached to either account.  When I first signed up for PP and Ebay, those weren't required.  I am just worried they are going to deduct almost 6K from my previously saved accounts.  Thanks everyone, screw eBay, I will never sell on here again!!!!!!

[bonjourami]

I was so afraid of this..I am so sorry. If those accounts are inactive, theres no way they can go into them, but I know PP turns people over to collections..it happened to a very good friend of mine here...they even tried to garnishee her wages...it was the same scenario, but with a Tiffany necklace.have you thought about small claims court..or even Judge Judy? ive seen several Ebay cases on there. Most notably a designer purse that the scam buyer got to keep, along with her payment..its sickening.

[sharingtheland]

I spoke with my attorney and was told that eBay or PP cannot ruin my excellent credit because there is no SS # attached to either account.

I hate to add more misery but a debt can be reported to and appear on your credit report without the use of a SSN.

[castlemagicmemories]

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@eleetcomputer wrote:

eBay has already ruled the case as a fraudulent return and decided in my favor. I filed with my local police as per ebay's instructions and at the suggestion of many community members and am waiting on a copy of the incident report to forward to eBay to complete the case. I am very thankful they ruled appropriately.  That is so crazy about the diapers.  I'm sorry to hear that happened to you.  I have heard of people getting boxes of rocks back instead of the item, but not dirty diapers.  People amaze me how disgusting and hateful they can be. 

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Congratulations, OP!  

[itz_stacey]

Read post 157...

OP thought that what CS told them was actually true, and they would stick to their word. Not the case. They just wanted him off the phone as per usual.

[twinkling.smile]

@eleetcomputer 

I'm very sorry this happened to you.

I think it is a bad idea to keep your PP account in the negative. You are subject to the decisions of PP and eBay by using them.

If you can try the small claims court, go for it.

But for now, I think it is the best to take the loss. The loss of the item. Not the item and the money, as some people think.

Repair the PP balance. For the future consequences and for your peace of mind.

[cashvaluerecovery2011]

Are you really suggesting the OP give the money back so that the theft can come to complete fruition? Or did I read that wrong?

[cashvaluerecovery2011]

Sorry my friend. This is why I warned a while back that this was not over and to protect yourself. If you are forced to pay back the money the thief will have committed a felony as the amount goes over all states minimum requirement that I know of. Using the post office to fraudulently deceive another is another felony I believe. Its up to you if you want to pursue or bend over and take it. Really sucks but this is how brazen thieves are on this site because ebay always comes through in aiding their crimes.

[sugarpotpye]

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@eleetcomputer wrote:

Hello everyone. I have some terrible news.  After being told by several ebay reps during the process that this was a fraudulent return and they ruled in my favor, their swat team ended up over turning the decision.  I did everything they asked me to do.  I have video evidence of packing the genuine item and shipping it out as well as video of receiving the fake watch at the local post office.  I even supplied a police report as they requested.  They gave no reason as to why they changed their decision.  Their explanation was "at this point it is really your word against the buyer."  Now wouldn't that work the same way for the seller?  It really doesn't make sense, I've provided photographic and video evidence, police reports and did everything by the book that they requested.  I have already withdrew my funds to my bank account weeks ago. so I am whole in that sense.  My PP is now in the negative.  I have no bank account or credit card on file with that PP account.  I removed them once I saw this turning south and from the comments of the community stating that eBay most always sides with the buyer.  My question is is there anything I can do at this point? Also, since there is no payment information in my PayPal account can PayPal still charge me the negative balance to any of the accounts that were previously on file?  I spoke with my attorney and was told that eBay or PP cannot ruin my excellent credit because there is no SS # attached to either account.  When I first signed up for PP and Ebay, those weren't required.  I am just worried they are going to deduct almost 6K from my previously saved accounts.  Thanks everyone, screw eBay, I will never sell on here again!!!!!!

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You need to file this first.  After 30 days of getting more of the run around, you can then file for arbitration.

http://p.ebaystatic.com/aw/help/legal/Notice_of_Dispute.pdf

If you do not want to click the link, search for ebay notice of dispute.

Make sure you follow the directions exactly for both processes.

D