Seller Ships Real Rolex, Buyer says it is Counterfeit

[eleetcomputer]

Hello Everyone,

I want to thank everyone in advance for any help or suggestions you might have as this situation is MAJOR and has me literally SICK!  I recently started selling some high valued items in the past month. Mainly high end computer components.   I have been an eBay member for about 7-8 years. Anyway, I listed my Rolex Yachtmaster a couple weeks ago.  Attached are all of the pictures that were included in the listing along with extras.  I sent the package via FedEx, Insured for the sale amount, as well as Adult Signature.   Here is the MAJOR problem.  The Buyer is claiming it is a counterfeit Rolex and requested a return.   I looked at the tracking info and saw it was delivered and signed for by someone other than the buyer.  I had promptly replied to him, baffled yet polite, and asked if the person who signed for it was a room mate, family member, mail room, etc.  I asked  the buyer to send pictures of everything that he received, shipping container, watch box, certificates, tags, etc. So that I could see the box and if it appeared to be tampered with.  If it was tampered with, I would be able to see in the photos of the shipping packaging since I used special tape.  I never received a reply from the buyer.  All that was sent were these 3 photos when he first requested the return. I attempted to contact him twice thru eBay.  I also tried to call his cellphone and even looked him up on facebook so I could try to get ahold of him.  No contact was made.  I even called eBay and inquired about what I should do because what he was claiming, wasn't what I shipped him.  eBay informed me to wait until a case was opened!  They offered no other resolution other than to accept the return and refund him.  Of course, I'm not going to accept the return and refund him and get back a fake watch when he was shipped a genuine Rolex.  Yesterday, the Buyer opened a case against me stating that the watch "doesn't seem authentic".  I had contacted the high value claims dept. after they emailed me stating they were going to refund him and they stated the best thing to do is accept the return and then open a case against the buyer if he does not send back the original item.  I have never had a problem on eBay until now.  I don't know if the Buyer is attempting to fraudulently return the watch and get his money back, or if the package was tampered with and the item was replaced with a different item.  I find it HIGHLY unlikely for FedEx to do something like that with as many cameras there are in these places. I also find it EXTREMELY unlikely that FedEx would have a counterfeit Rolex laying around to swap out the real one.  In being professional, I didn't want to come right out and accuse the buyer of attempting to scam me, hence why I asked for photos of the packaging.  So at this point, I contacted eBay again and asked for a return shipping label to be issued via eBay since I couldn't send a label because it is now an open case. 

I have since removed all of my items for sale since it appears to be very easy for buyers to open cases against sellers and get their stuff for free, especially when they see the seller just started listing things and isn't a power seller or a big store.  The horror stories that I've been reading on these forums is scary.  What does a seller due to protect him or herself?  Am I handling this the proper way?  Any tips and advice would be greatly appreciated.  Thank again.

FAKE WATCH - BUYER PHOTOFAKE WATCH - BUYER PHOTOFAKE WATCH - BUYER PHOTO

GENUINE ROLEX - WHAT I SHIPPEDGENUINE ROLEX - WHAT I SHIPPED

[frenzy.finds]

Also, for about a $25 fee, you can have your bank block withdrawals from your bank account, permanently, if you haven't already done so. It's as easy as putting a stop payment on a cheque.

This is helpful if you weren't using a separate bank account for your PayPal transactions.

[twinkling.smile]

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@cashvaluerecovery2011 wrote:
Did you file police and mail fraud reports and send those to ebay? Otherwise the chance ebay will side with you and not refund the scammer is 0%. At least I have never seen it done. Did you remove your money from paypal and the bank account linked to it to protect your funds? If you did, then you are at least not out the money. Ebay will ban you and they might even try to get your money but then they have to prove you cheated the buyer..........to which you have proof you did not. If ebay or you DO refund the buyer then the burden of chasing a deadbeat scammer for your money back or your item back is on your dime and time which = bad.

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Remove your money? I can't believe such 'advice'. If you do so, eBay knows where to find you.

As seller you are subject to eBay's rules. Not just the ones you like, but all of them.

[ittybitnot]

eleetcomputer

Any news?

[cashvaluerecovery2011]

I am subject to ebays rules..............but ebays rules does not trump the law of the land or my state. A person has every right to protect themselves, their property, and their money from thieves and frauds whether ebays rules do or do not.

"Ebay knows where to find me." They also know where to find the guy that stole the OP's watch dont they? But they arent going to help the OP. Are you really suggesting to ship off a $6000 watch and let someone steal it and NOT protect the money because ebay might be upset? Oh no! Ebay might kick me out and not let me continue the enjoyment of being robbed?

"As a seller you are subject to ebays rules. Not just the ones you like, but all of them." Ok I then would like for myself and the OP to be subject to ebays rules as well. Like the rule that buyers arent allowed to defraud sellers with returns. See below.

Seller protection policy overview
How you're protected

eBay protects you from many events outside your control and is here for you when things don't go as planned.

This policy outlines the protections eBay gives you if:

An item arrives late that you shipped on time
There are carrier disruptions, bugs, or severe weather
<b>A returned item has been opened, used, or damaged<b>
A buyer retracts their bid or doesn't pay
A buyer changes their order or requests something extra
A buyer has an unusual rate of complaints or returns
Your Seller Performance Standards are impacted
You ship within your handling time to an international buyer
You have eBay Money Back Guarantee requests

Now call me a real booger for details here but I and any remotely intelligent person reading the quoted line above "opened, used, damaged" return being protected would certainly consider COMPLETELY DIFFERENT FAKE ITEM RETURNED as fitting into this category. The problem is ebay does not protect the seller even on opened, used, or damaged returns either. I LITERALLY have a recorded conversation with an ebay CS from a few years back stating if I sold a ring and got a banana back in return that they would find for the buyer even if it was their first purchase and that sending them video evidence would do nothing.

So please please tell me how it is that you think protecting your money in cases like this is a bad plan? Ebay can come after you but they would have to prove you cheated the buyer to have any legal recourse because ebay is not out any money and took no damages. The buyer would be the one having to come after the seller and try to prove the seller defrauded him. In this case if the seller sold a real rolex and got back a fake one there is no one on the planet that is going to help the seller except the seller. So why in the world you wouldnt withdraw your money to keep yourself from being robbed makes no sense at all unless you are making such a killing on ebay that you can easily eat a $6000 loss.

[rednarlenes]

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@frenzy.finds wrote:

Also, for about a $25 fee, you can have your bank block withdrawals from your bank account, permanently, if you haven't already done so. It's as easy as putting a stop payment on a cheque.

This is helpful if you weren't using a separate bank account for your PayPal transactions.

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From the way you spell cheque, maybe you are not US. Here you can put a hold on a check, but it is not permanent. I think it's 6 mos to a year, depending on the bank. Then you have to pay again to keep the hold. 

Found this out the hard way with a landlord who said he lost one of my checks so I wrote him a new one. Quite a while after I moved to another state, he cashed the first one.

[bonjourami]

It makes sense because Ebay and/or PP will turn you over to collections, ruin your credit,and ive also heard they can garnishee wages thru the collection agency.,depending on the amount owed..and sue you for their money,and bring a judgement against you.

[cashvaluerecovery2011]

You did not take money from paypal or ebay. You took money from Buyer X. Buyer X returned a counterfeit item to which you owe no refund. Ebays seller protection program says buyers cant abuse return policy although ebay doesnt follow through. And there are state and federal laws that say Buyer X cant defraud Seller X of a $6000 item. Its a felony. And using the US postal service to facilitate this theft is a federal crime. If I personally decide to withdraw the money that was paid to me for a Rolex that is considered not only a perfectly legit transaction but its what happens eventually in all transactions. You get your money! When a counterfeit item is sent back to defraud me, I am under no lawful obligation to send the thief back that money and assist them in their scam. If Ebay decides to refund the buyer back on their dime and then come after me then I will simply go through with the criminal charges against their buyer and ask if ebay would like to also be named as a victim in the crime. I would also allow my attorney to contact them to let them know any damages made to myself or my credit during this criminal investigation would make ebay liable.

Bonjourami. If they have to sue me and bring a judgement against me in order to put me to collections and ruin my credit the judge is going to have a really really hard time saying Im at fault when I show the evidence and existing criminal case I have going against Ebays buyer.

Look either way you are going to have to fight. Can we agree on that much? I prefer to fight to keep myself intact than to fight to put myself back together. Its flat out insanity to me that so many of you feel like you are doing something wrong defending yourself. Its like you are only a good guy if you allow the victimization to happen completely before doing something about it. I just prefer to not be victimized at all.

[jason_incognito]

ebay's user agreement would be all that the judge would need to see. The fact that you didn't like a decision they made means nothing. 

Absolutely nothing. You might want to talk to an attorney instead of people who play one on the internet.

[sharingtheland]

If they have to sue me and bring a judgement against me in order to put me to collections and ruin my credit

Your credit will be ruined long before you see an attorney or a judge.  Getting that repaired is a long and usually losing effort.

I'm not disagreeing with the overall gist of your comment; ebay does not follow its own stated policies of seller protection.

[bonjourami]

Absolutely agree with both posters, above..this is not some Lala land,where dreams come true..this is Ebay.

[bonjourami]

I dont think anybody in here feels they are 'doing something wrong' by defending themselves..its just that most of these posters are long time, very experienced, sellers. Supposed legal rights are one thing..Ebays rules and regs are another..bound tightly by the User Agreement.

[eleetcomputer · Accepted solution]

Sorry for the delay in updating the community what the result was.  eBay has ruled this as a fraudulent return.  Once, I receive the police report so I can upload to eBay, the case will be closed.   Thankfully it all worked out properly.  Thank you to all who offered helpful advice or simply just commented to give some words of encouragement.  I can definitely say, I will not be selling any more high dollar stuff on ebay.  Which sucks because I have a couple more really nice watches and a bunch of 1080 and 1080ti's for sale.  Items like that are hard to sell around my small town. 

[bonjourami]

i am so happy for you! For once, Ebay did the right thing! You can always sell those watches as local pick up only...meet the buyer in front of a police station or something...many congrats!

[eleetcomputer]

I thought about that, but who's gonna drive the whole way here? LOL

[ittybitnot]

  eBay has ruled this as a fraudulent return.  

Does that mean you get to keep the $$$$?    I ask because since the boards began this is a real first!  eBay has said for years that they do not deal with faulty returns, and it is just part of doing business that a seller lose out under these circumstances. 

If you are made whole, I am so happy for you!  

Do we wonder if they paid off the returner of the phony watch as well?