OKAY, just got Ebay's determination, which was affirmed by the concierge. I Lose All, Lamp/Money/$20

[mool]

OKAY, just got Ebay's determination, which was affirmed by the concierge. I lose both, the lamp and the money plus a $20.00 "dispute" fee that Ebay tacks on to the losing side involved in a dispute. Let me refresh the memory of those that have forgotten. Over 3 months ago I sold a Streamlight headlamp to a California resident for $168.00 + shipping. Buyer gets the lamp and gives a + feedback and gushes over the lamp. Headlamp was sold in as is condition with no return allowed. 60 days after receipt, I get a notice from ebay that the buyer had disputed the transaction with his bank for "item not as described". Ebay took the monies from my account and "held" it until a determination was made by the buyer's bank. I then wrote and talked to the buyer to state that even though item was sold as is, and buyer was 30 days past ebay's warranty under buyer protection, I was willing to take the item back and pay the freight. He said that it was too much trouble, that I had sold it, he had bought it and as such he was entitled to send it to get repaired at Streamlight (which has a lifetime warranty). I explained that I owned the light, he said that it was too much trouble and he kept it. I objected to the dispute. 

Today I got the email from ebay that said I lose both the money, the lamp and a $20.00 dispute fee. I called my concierge about the Seller protection and he said that since it had been done through the sellers bank, that ebay's hands were tied. That he would credit me the $20.00 fee as a courtesy for being a 100% ebay trader for 3600 + feed-backs over a span of over 24 years. I asked for his superior and he said that he was it... Judge-Jury-Executioner. I will be canceling my sales for now, as I cannot afford to risk anymore sales to thieves. Additionally I am seriously considering ending my ebay relationship. Not for what this buyer did, but for what ebay failed to do. Seller Protection by ebay? When? Where? How? The thieving buyer is still dealing on ebay.

[itsjustasprain]

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@lakefor94 wrote:

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@mool wrote:

It wasn't the buyer's fault. It was because of ebay's reaction or failure to react.

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Again, nothing to do with eBay. They are not going to cover your credit card chargebacks, neither is Amazon, Etsy or any of the others.

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If theyre not going to fight for him they could at least tell him who he needs to see to fight for himself.

[lakefor94]

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@itsjustasprain wrote:

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@lakefor94 wrote:

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@mool wrote:

It wasn't the buyer's fault. It was because of ebay's reaction or failure to react.

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Again, nothing to do with eBay. They are not going to cover your credit card chargebacks, neither is Amazon, Etsy or any of the others.

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If theyre not going to fight for him they could at least tell him who he needs to see to fight for himself.

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I have had two over the years, one with Amazon, one with eBay. They did not refer me to the Credit Card issuer.  It that a realistic expectation?  

I have never processed a credit card transaction.  I would think in that scenario,  a vendor/seller might deal directly with the Credit Card issuer. I don't know, never been there.

[ikonicstudios]

This is very strange because I've had two transaction in the last 6 months where there buyer contacted their bank and filed a dispute. I received a notice from eBay about the dispute but the notice also stated that regardless of the decision, I would be covered as I followed all the guidelines and shipped to the address on the transaction. The strange thing about disputes is that the banks usually always side with the customer. In my first dispute, the customer not only made the purchase, they asked me questions and also left me a positive feedback and yet, they still got their money from their bank even with that trail of evidence. However, I got to keep the funds. The second dispute is actually still pending but I have already been told that I will be covered. Did you send to a different address or anything outside the norm to not have the seller protection cover you?

[a_c_green]

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@ikonicstudios wrote:

This is very strange because I've had two transaction in the last 6 months where there buyer contacted their bank and filed a dispute. I received a notice from eBay about the dispute but the notice also stated that regardless of the decision, I would be covered as I followed all the guidelines and shipped to the address on the transaction. 

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Now that you mention it, I had one of those back in May. I went and looked it up again just now, and it's supposedly still "under review" by the bank, but verbiage I got was the same as you, saying that they were covering it and I did not need to do anything.

However, mine (and perhaps yours as well?) was a "Buyer did not recognize the transaction" chargeback, whereas the OP is fighting a Not As Described chargeback instead, which I think rises to a higher level of complication. In the case of a "not recognized" transaction, it may be that all you need to prove to eBay is that you shipped it to the address you received with the payment. eBay didn't ask me to provide anything; their message was more of an FYI, and I have heard nothing since. (It was a $31 sale.)

[mool]

No, everything was done in accordance with all of ebays rules and all above board.

[mool]

If theyre not going to fight for him they could at least tell him who he needs to see to fight for himself.

I agree wholeheartedly

[mool]

All I wanted if coverage was not available under sellers protection, was access to the bank's information so I could pick up the baton.

[rugerskick]

When you respond to statements someone didn't make, but change them the way you WANT them to sound so you can then respond to them, you sound really great.  Either that, or you just don't read what others write very carefully and precisely.  Don't know which one it is in your case.

[mool]

Did you show knives in the photos? Sorry, I see you said there were no knives in the main photo. But the other photos showed knives? Looks like you had that problem a couple of times.=

Your logic being what? If Ad is for a hydraulic jack and it shows it being used to lift a semi, which in turn is carrying a pickup, on which a boat is also attached... Does the seller need to list for a $19.95 auction for a jack that neither the semi, nor the pickup nor the boat is included? Specially for "free shipping"?-:)

Could not help myself! Finally beginning to see the humor of this transaction and being a believer in ultimate Karma... I know he will get his.

My point being is that "reasonable construction" is to rule and there is no way you can prevent an ill-intentioned, larcenous individual from gaming you or the system. My biggest issue is that by ebay blocking my attempt to approach the bank, they basically shielded the thief.

[mool]

I may reconsider, but mostly to buy and sell only cheap $$ items. Thank you for the support. I actually had the displeasure of conversing with this individual for well over an hour thinking he just did not get it. My wife is the one that said to stop it, that he was just going to steal it. Of course, being a woman... she was right!

[mool]

I may reconsider, but mostly to buy and sell only cheap $$ items.

[bonjourami]

"All I wanted if coverage was not available under sellers protection, was access to the bank's information so I could pick up the baton."

You know that will never happen..there are privacy laws for Ebay members,and cc holders .Would you like a seller being given the name of your cc bank?

[mool]

All I did was "cut and Paste" - true, I am not knowledgeable in "web etiquette" but I try to muddle through. This diatribe has gone on way longer than I expected, obviously pushing buttons on a lot of members. If I made a misquote, I apologize. Please communicate with me on or off forum so I can see what you are referring to, and I will try to explain or correct. Thank you.

[mool]

But they are protecting a thief. A member as much as you and I used ebay to steal from another member and ebay is allowing him to do so without raising much fuss. I understand your point, but I do not like it. If he lived in Florida I would have taken it further with the law enforcement community. Then ebay would have had to provide the info.

[a_c_green]

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@a_c_green wrote:
However, mine (and perhaps yours as well?) was a "Buyer did not recognize the transaction" chargeback, whereas the OP is fighting a Not As Described chargeback instead, which I think rises to a higher level of complication. In the case of a "not recognized" transaction, it may be that all you need to prove to eBay is that you shipped it to the address you received with the payment. eBay didn't ask me to provide anything; their message was more of an FYI, and I have heard nothing since. (It was a $31 sale.)

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A short follow-up: I have just this morning (yes, Sunday) had a new notification that the dispute was closed in my favor.

The official reason given for opening the dispute was "The buyer did not recognize the transaction," and this was today's message:

> Outcome for payment dispute [----------]
>
> The dispute was found in your favor
>
> eBay
>
> Here are the details
>
> Dispute ID: [----------]
>
> Hi [...],
>
> A decision has been made about the dispute that was filed by [Buyer ID].
> The dispute was found in your favor. You don't have to pay anything back
> and no further action is needed from you.

This was the entire history, as shown on the Payment Dispute Details page:

> Aug 7, 2022  Dispute closed
> May 28, 2022 Dispute rebuttal sent to payment institution
> May 28, 2022 Dispute opened

The "dispute rebuttal" could not have been anything more than eBay sending the package tracking; certainly eBay never asked me for anything further, and in fact had told me directly that I did not need to do anything. Why the buyer's bank did nothing but sit on the response for... what, 10 full weeks? I have no idea, but I assume someone finally decided to let things time out.

I think this highlights the difference between a buyer's bank claiming "transaction not recognized" and "not as described." The former is more of a record-keeping dispute than anything else; the latter is a dispute where the seller would like to have the item back before refunding, but the bank does not see the need for that. eBay chooses to not push back on that, which does not help the seller, and adds insult to injury by not giving the seller a fair chance to defend himself either.