eBay

kidscansucceedfoundation · ‎08-25-2024

We have received many orders from

**** NE Mt St Helens Ave

Portland, OR 97250

User then submits a return request and returns nothing - then submits a case and appeals. Does ebay not know that this is happening, seems the entire internet is aware of this scam but ebay is tellling us to send the orders.

robbie31415 · ‎08-25-2024

Most likely a FF. (Freight Forwarder).

They typically are located in Florida, Delaware and Oregon.

We experience many issues with them however I'm a little bit confused by your story.

I've not had them return nothing and have a case decided against me.

I offer free returns and then the return times out.

Ebay usually tells you what won them the appeal. Did it say they supplied tracking that shows it was delivered to you ?

mam98031 · ‎08-25-2024

Are they opening a Request for Return before or after the item arrives at the address you are shipping to?

Why would the appeal if they didn't return anything? I'm not sure Ebay would allow an appeal.

Why is it a scam? Ebay wouldn't make you refund any money unless you got the product back. I get it you are losing time and likely raising your blood pressure, but are you losing money and/or product?

If you get another order to that address, you have a right do cancel it due to a problem with the address. If Ebay has an issue with that, explain all the Return Requests you are getting from buyers to that address.

This is likely a Freight Forwarder, but it would not be the Freight Forwarder that is your buyer, that would be an international buyer that has hired the FF to collect some deliveries for them and then put them together to ship on to their international address. It typically helps to save on international shipping for the buyer.

Most transactions are fine with a FF, but clearly you have some issues with the buyer or buyers using this specific FF.

mam98031 • Volunteer Community Member • Buyer/Seller since 1999

"I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you." Quote from Edward I Koch

dbfolks166mt · ‎08-26-2024

You did not provide a lot of detail but the street info you provided helps a bit. Very short street in Portland and I suspect the street number is that of Nippon Express Inc. which is a global shipping company, aka a FF (freight forwarder). Where is your buyer actually located?

If you shipped the items and tracking shows they were delivered to the FF then your responsibility as a seller is done. Once the package arrives at the FF the buyer looses their MBG coverage. If they are opening cases for a return what reason are they using for the return and how are you responding to the case?

ittybitnot · ‎08-26-2024

Once the package arrives at the FF the buyer looses their MBG coverage.

dbfolks166mt · ‎08-26-2024

Once the package arrives at the FF the buyer looses their MBG coverage.

@dbfolks166mt

While that is true, it only applies if the SELLER is aware of the F.Forwarder situation, and contacts eBay with regards to same. Otherwise eBay treats it like any other domestic sale, and will allow MBG claims to be made. eBay does not volunteer that information to the seller, so the seller is then forced to contend with a MBG sale and contend with eBay as well.

It is best that the seller contact eBay PRIOR to having to initiate a return label for a return made by the buyer in these cases. If not, then the seller will most often have an additional burden of being a victim of the 'fake tracking return scam' .

Though many shipments made to freight forwarders do turn out well, when they don't it is important to know where and how to contact eBay for redress. Here are some examples of how this scenario plays out.

Totally agree and thank you for expounding on my post. The fact that bots are now automatically handling a lot of these claims has only compounded the problem.

kidscansucceedfoundation · ‎08-26-2024

They requested a refund and sent only the return label, they did not include any product or even a box that put the label on evelope > THey appealed the case and won they ripped us off for $420 dollars ebay said there is nothing they can do.

mam98031 · ‎08-26-2024

@kidscansucceedfoundation wrote:
They requested a refund and sent only the return label, they did not include any product or even a box that put the label on evelope > THey appealed the case and won they ripped us off for $420 dollars ebay said there is nothing they can do.

I'm a little confused on the sequence of events. If you issued a Return Label, then it was likely there was a Request for Return. Why did they have to "appeal" the case? What was the reason they used?

Who was your carrier? Contact them. Carriers now take pictures of most everything they handle these days. As the carrier to email you a copy of the picture at any point in the journey would work. Also the Carrier will note the weight on the package, so ask them for that information too.

Then YOU appeal the decision to refund the buyer armed with the evidence that they could not have shipped back what was suppose to be shipped which can be proved by the Carriers records.

I sincerely hope this works out for you. I am very sorry you are having to deal with this.

Please let us know how things turn out for you.

mam98031 • Volunteer Community Member • Buyer/Seller since 1999

"I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you." Quote from Edward I Koch

broto_64 · ‎08-26-2024

@kidscansucceedfoundation wrote:
They requested a refund and sent only the return label, they did not include any product or even a box that put the label on evelope > THey appealed the case and won they ripped us off for $420 dollars ebay said there is nothing they can do.

Yes, this is known as the empty envelope return scam.
The problem is that once tracking shows delivery, a refund is required.
There is no method by which ebay can verify the contents of the return.

mam98031 · ‎08-26-2024

@broto_64 wrote:
@kidscansucceedfoundation wrote:
They requested a refund and sent only the return label, they did not include any product or even a box that put the label on evelope > THey appealed the case and won they ripped us off for $420 dollars ebay said there is nothing they can do.
Yes, this is known as the empty envelope return scam.
The problem is that once tracking shows delivery, a refund is required.
There is no method by which ebay can verify the contents of the return.

Seller has a couple of days to refund, it is not immediate.

mam98031 • Volunteer Community Member • Buyer/Seller since 1999

"I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you." Quote from Edward I Koch

kidscansucceedfoundation · ‎08-27-2024

This scam works really well for those using freight fowarding because unlike residential address you can't just block the address. These people buy aged ebay accounts online and then purchase items on ebay, they never actually recieve the item since it's fowarded to another country but they have the same image they use to send a picture of some type of damage. If you have automated returns they just send back the label and ebay will refund them you will loose the case everytime. They mostly target shoes and brand name apparel. Eventually Ebay will only be large sellers who can afford to absorb these losses, the little guys like us will not be able to absorb these fraud losses.

mam98031 · ‎08-27-2024

@kidscansucceedfoundation wrote:
This scam works really well for those using freight fowarding because unlike residential address you can't just block the address. These people buy aged ebay accounts online and then purchase items on ebay, they never actually recieve the item since it's fowarded to another country but they have the same image they use to send a picture of some type of damage. If you have automated returns they just send back the label and ebay will refund them you will loose the case everytime. They mostly target shoes and brand name apparel. Eventually Ebay will only be large sellers who can afford to absorb these losses, the little guys like us will not be able to absorb these fraud losses.

Ebay doesn't allow that.

Once an item is shipped FROM a FF, the item is no longer covered under the MBG. The seller isn't responsible for it as the seller had nothing to do with packaging it or shipping it.

You are correct there are scammers everywhere these days. I previously gave the OP some ideas of evidence they could get to appeal the decision by Ebay and if they win, the seller will get their money back from Ebay.

If Ebay gathers enough info on any given thief, they have an entire legal department that can take over.

There unfortunately scammers everywhere, not just here. Thieves can be very creative, that is for sure.

mam98031 • Volunteer Community Member • Buyer/Seller since 1999

"I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you." Quote from Edward I Koch