Buyer using USPS return scam - Ebay decided case in buyers favor

[austinsbestbuys]

I had a buyer who bought macbook air from me - after receiving they said its defective and asked for a return. I provided them the regular eBay USPS shipping label. Buyer supposedly returned the laptop and USPS delivered it in my very small mailbox (not possible). Upon further research, i noticed that the buyer had used a forwarding address of MEEST AMERICA. My hunch is that they overwrote the shipping address on the label and returned some empty small thing to a different address in my zip code. When i contacted buyer, there was no response ofcourse. 

I informed eBay and ofcourse they decided with the buyer. Filed an appeal to no avail and also got a defect on my account. Now, I am $929.99 in negative + a needless defect on my account. 

I wanted to ask experienced members here what are my options. Is that something i could sue eBay about since this is not the first time it happened to me?

[caldreamer]

Yes, scammers target people selling "new electronics" or anything of "high value".   There are many, many different types of scams going around. Never sell more than you can afford to lose.  Unfortunately, EBAY will NOT protect you if you get scammed.   

You would have to sue customer that scammed you in small claims court but since they are in a foreign country it won't do you any good.  

Sorry this happened to you...this is a tough lesson to learn.   You should immediately cancel any listing for high value electronics because now that the scammer got away with it (they will target you again and again).

[kensgiftshop]

See if you can get a letter from USPS stating that the address was changed and not delivered to your address.

File a police report and mail fraud.

Once you have all those, use them to appeal the case.

[robbie31415]

Ebay doesn't go on hunches.

When you filed your appeal you needed supporting documents. Police report, cyber crimes report, mail fraud report and a statement from the USPS saying the label was altered, which they can verify.

If your appeal was simply based on your feelings then it's mostly always a lose.

[showmecurrency4u]

the government should set limit of 

ebay  needs to have a limit  of selling   only selling items for less than 49.99 until they clean up their platform to stop the theft by low feedback "buyers" or allow sellers to block any sellers with 0 or any other feedback statis.   

[doc-holmes]

That would fix the problem by putting eBay out of business overnight. 

[rosachs]

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@showmecurrency4u wrote:

ebay  needs to have a limit  of selling   only selling items for less than 49.99 until they clean up their platform to stop the theft by low feedback "buyers" or allow sellers to block any sellers with 0 or any other feedback statis.   

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You are more than welcome to follow these guidelines and see if it makes any difference, other than to reduce your income from this singular venue.  You cannot throttle one venue and leave all the others unfettered -- not until a proven mechanism is developed, tested, and implemented at all third-party selling venues.

Not to mention you are going to have to convince the eBay Board Of Directors and all the shareholders (voiting and non-voting) that the loss of valuation of their stock in eBay is worth doing.  Would you be willing to give up 90% of your paycheck because your kids say you are spending it wrong?

-Bob.

[gamersbaystore]

Contact USPS and ask for printout/letter that shows proof of what was delivered and where. They typically take pictures of packages when scanning upon delivery now, and they can provide detailed information that proves exactly where a package was delivered. They store geolocation for deliveries, the evidence is indisputable.

As others noted and I agree with, file a mail fraud and or police reports.

Don't file an appeal until you've done the above and have the info ready to hand over to ebay.

ebay has a serious problem with return fraud, which they refuse to acknowledge or do anything about.

The scammers will typically return the item to another address within your own zipcode. ebay sees the tracking showing as delivered to that zipcode and they refund the scamming buyer.

ebay doesnt actually verify where the item was delivered, which they should be.

Your buyer didnt overwrite the shipping address, they merely didnt use the label ebay gave them and instead purchased their own. This is also part of the problem, ebay needs to start forcing buyers to use the return labels ebay provides, or no refund. Otherwise, this is never going to stop.

[mam98031]

@austinsbestbuys 

This is a scam that is going around right now.  Contact USPS, try your local PO first.  Have the tracking number ready to give them.  Get them to email you as much of the details as they are willing to give you.  They take pics of the packages now too, see if you can get that.  A very important piece of info to get is the weight on the package and size.

After you get the proof, contact the police department in your buyer's area, you may be able to do it online.  File a theft report and use the info you got from USPS.  You can also file a Fraud report with USPS as well.  BTW, that is a Federal Crime.

Ebay is not ever going to get in the middle of a he said/ she said situation.  You need PROOF.  Get with USPS and get the PROOF in writing and then you go back to Ebay with it.  And get the police report number.  Ebay is responsive to police reports.

[mam98031]

@showmecurrency4u 

Well that would put a lot of very good sellers out of business right quick.

It would kill Ebay's sales on the site.

Ebay would have to raise fees.

And so many more things tells us this is just plain wrong.

BTW you are blaming Ebay for something they did NOT do.  Ebay has no control over this type of scam.  How in the world could they?  How is it that you think Ebay can see this is a scam and stop it?

Blocking new members is a business killer.  We need new buyers so that the site will grow and we have more customers.  Without new sellers sales would continue to die off as our customers age.  You need to keep in mind the big picture.

[ittybitnot]

I wanted to ask experienced members here what are my options

.@austinsbestbuys 

You are apparently a victim of the "fake tracking return scam" (aka cheap trinket return scam).  It is a popular technique of international buyers that use a Freight Forwarder address.  eBay provides some extra protections in these instances for sellers, but will not volunteer the information during a return/claim.  Buyers that use freight forwarders forfeit the right to eBay Money Back Guarantee claims, but they can file them just the same.  It is up to the seller to inform eBay that they are dealing with a freight forwarder situation. 

A couple to typical scenarios may be employed.  One, is to the alter the address information for the return label you sent.  These are PDF files, and can be changed with ease.  This retains the same tracking number and bar code of the original return label, but the address is to some other entity in your Zipcode.  The eBay automated system is fine with this, and the seller will prevail.  Carriers deliver to the printed address on the label. 

The other method is just to purchase some cheap trinket on the net, and have it shipped to some other address in your Zipcode.  Because eBay does not require the buyer to use the return label, this is fine with eBay, too.  The seller will prevail again, when the delivery confirmation is shown.  

Regular customer service (the foreign based call center reps you get on chat or callback) have been notoriously useless with these issues.  You will find better help, and will usually get your money back if you use one of the eBay customer service portals on their social media channels.  One such is the blue message button at the top of this page: 

https://www.facebook.com/eBayForBusiness

There are similar contact points on instagram or twitter (X)

These social media channels lead directly to US CS agents that are quite familiar with this scam process, and DO have the authority to help you. 
 Sometimes just explaining that a freight forwarder is involved is enough for them to issue you a refund. Other times, they want written documentation that the address on the return label was NOT intended for you (where it was delivered is not required).  In the past, this "written" documentation was hard or impossible to obtain, basically absolving eBay of having to act on your behalf.   USPS has come a long way and will often give you a photo of that return label, and other information that you need. 

Buyers who are victims of fake tracking issues, can seek redress through their c.card.  Sellers have no such option, and must seek help and deal with years of "eBay denial" at the same time.    

Good luck,  and do let us know how this turns out for you. 

[ittybitnot]

@austinsbestbuys 

The seller will prevail again, when the delivery confirmation is shown.  

Should read BUYER will prevail in my post #11.......not enough coffee yet this a.m. 

[ittybitnot]

This is also part of the problem, ebay needs to start forcing buyers to use the return labels ebay provides, or no refund. Otherwise, this is never going to stop.

@gamersbaystore 

Once again, they DO use the eBay provided labels now.  Changing the addresses of the PDF file is a simple matter, and even less expensive than the older version of having to purchase a "cheap trinket" and having it sent to the local gas station or library in the seller's Zipcode.   If I am not mistaken, you have been provided a screen shot of an altered eBay label recently to compare what was generated by eBay vs what arrived in the town of the seller (compliments of USPS). 

[sma2208]

I always go through the Better Business Bureau when I have an issue with ebay support being ridiculous (which is most of the time). The BBB doesn't actually do anything, but you tend to get much more competent customer service people looking at these complaints, which can make a big difference. It's worth trying.

Ebay's regular support people are spectacularly bad at their jobs.

[sextons-sweet-deals]

eBay could fix this if they really wanted to! 

From what I know, when a seller issues a return label, the seller will never see the tracking number so they can't track / watch where the package is or where it ends up.  

Because of that, it is an easy scammer play game. Manipulate the shipping address because eBay only goes by the tracking number and their auto bot system.

The other scam is the seller just receiving an empty box, the buyers broken item that they just replaced, box of rocks, or the seller may get their item back less the parts the buyer needed from it to either fix their item or complete the set of something. 

It's really sad!

I have some expensive items and some large items that just can't be shipped. I have pick-up only on them. It sure weeds out the scammers but can be hard to sale even if I do live in a very populated area.