INR case, tracking shows delivered - Money on hold for 4-5 Business Days??

[nuclearomen]

I had a buyer open a INR case yesterday. This buyer purchased the same item twice, one one day another the following day. Both items were sent via USPS Priority Mail and shows as delivered (first package on 12th, 2nd package on the 14th). Buyer also left feedback for the item opened INR case on as "A+ Seller".... 

On the case, buyer says they received one but not the other, they were away, further, say they "don't think they got the other" - again, tracking shows as delivered. I enter the tracking into the case, and explain tracking shows delivered for the item case opened + the 2nd item with tracking # in the comments. These kind of claims were always an open and shut case, tracking shows delivered, case closed in seller favor.  

I call ebay and they tell me case can't close, even though they agree ebay will hold my money for 4-5 biz days for the case to close. Kinda absurd for INR case where the tracking is proof buyer received the item(s). 

tyler@ebay  velvet@ebay  why exactly can ebay not close this case and they hold my money for 4-5 days + another day to re-process those funds + another day to be paid out = A week - for a INR case where the tracking clearly shows as delivered + buyer feedback. 

I wrote in the case to buyer that tracking shows and they acknowledged tracking shows delivered and that my obligation was completed. Their issue is with USPS and possible mail theft in which they need to file a report with USPS and their local police dept  if in fact they didn't get packages/mail that was delivered while they were away. 

[tev4all]

Yes I understand your word salad. 

I stand by my statement. 

 "Poor vetting on eBav's part into the possible  consequences of an algorithm possibly designed to do something entirely different."

I agree, when tracking shows "delivered" the case should be closed automatically and any monies associated with that case should be released to seller. 

Any appeal to decision by buyer should only be granted when buyer provides positive proof the decision was wrong. 

This has been an interesting thread and further confirms to me that at this time they/eBay are not the type 'partner' I want in "my business".      

[nuclearomen]

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@tev4all wrote:

Yes I understand your word salad. 

I stand by my statement. 

 "Poor vetting on eBav's part into the possible  consequences of an algorithm possibly designed to do something entirely different."

I agree, when tracking shows "delivered" the case should be closed automatically and any monies associated with that case should be released to seller. 

Any appeal to decision by buyer should only be granted when buyer provides positive proof the decision was wrong. 

This has been an interesting thread and further confirms to me that at this time they/eBay are not the type 'partner' I want in "my business".      

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You, me, everyone else agrees, ebay reps I talked to agreed, just this new system they have won't allow cases to be closed. Beyond understanding and makes it just that much harder to have confidence in doing business with the platform. IMO of course. 

[ittybitnot]

@nuclearomen 

Just posting to the end of this thread with a general comment.  Because yours was an "eBay claim" for INR, you are likely to see your funds returned sometime this quarter.  Had it been an INR PAYMENT DISPUTE (aka chargeback, PP claim etc.)  they make you wait "until the credit card company decides"  EVEN THOUGH YOU COMPLIED and SATISFIED ALL REQUIREMENTS FOR SELLER PROTECTION.  This scenario can take up to a month or more.  Maybe velvet@ebay  can find out why this is the case as well. 

[katzrul15]

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@nuclearomen wrote:

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@tev4all wrote:

Yes I understand your word salad. 

I stand by my statement. 

 "Poor vetting on eBav's part into the possible  consequences of an algorithm possibly designed to do something entirely different."

I agree, when tracking shows "delivered" the case should be closed automatically and any monies associated with that case should be released to seller. 

Any appeal to decision by buyer should only be granted when buyer provides positive proof the decision was wrong. 

This has been an interesting thread and further confirms to me that at this time they/eBay are not the type 'partner' I want in "my business".      

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You, me, everyone else agrees, ebay reps I talked to agreed, just this new system they have won't allow cases to be closed. Beyond understanding and makes it just that much harder to have confidence in doing business with the platform. IMO of course. 

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E-Bay does a poor job communicating change.   When even the blues posting don't have the correct info, that is telling.

[vintagecraze50]

CEO in an interview not too long ago said they really want to keep their long time sellers now.  As they have proven to be a very excellent source of income. If you have bee on here a number of years you have the feedback and trust of the customer in most cases by prior performance. Also, many of the long term sellers are also big time buyers on here. TREAT THEM WELL.

[donsdetour]

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@katzrul15 wrote:

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@nuclearomen wrote:

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@tev4all wrote:

Yes I understand your word salad. 

I stand by my statement. 

 "Poor vetting on eBav's part into the possible  consequences of an algorithm possibly designed to do something entirely different."

I agree, when tracking shows "delivered" the case should be closed automatically and any monies associated with that case should be released to seller. 

Any appeal to decision by buyer should only be granted when buyer provides positive proof the decision was wrong. 

This has been an interesting thread and further confirms to me that at this time they/eBay are not the type 'partner' I want in "my business".      

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You, me, everyone else agrees, ebay reps I talked to agreed, just this new system they have won't allow cases to be closed. Beyond understanding and makes it just that much harder to have confidence in doing business with the platform. IMO of course. 

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E-Bay does a poor job communicating change.   When even the blues posting don't have the correct info, that is telling.

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Yep Lack o communication is one of the top reasons a business can cost a company a great deal of profits... : especially if it is an internal problem...

[velvet@ebay]

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@ittybitnot wrote:

@nuclearomen 

Just posting to the end of this thread with a general comment.  Because yours was an "eBay claim" for INR, you are likely to see your funds returned sometime this quarter.  Had it been an INR PAYMENT DISPUTE (aka chargeback, PP claim etc.)  they make you wait "until the credit card company decides"  EVEN THOUGH YOU COMPLIED and SATISFIED ALL REQUIREMENTS FOR SELLER PROTECTION.  This scenario can take up to a month or more.  Maybe velvet@ebay  can find out why this is the case as well. 

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@ittybitnot you are right that the timeframes differ. This is because we have no control over the payment dispute process given it's being run by the financial institution it was filed with. This is similar to how things worked with PayPal. The only real change is that because we are now managing the payment process, we're able to offer some additional protections and interaction on behalf of our sellers like you see here.

With the Money Back Guarantee being our claims process, we always encourage buyers to go that route as it allows for more communication between the two members and it also allows for additional eBay involvement. 

[coffeebean832]

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velvet@ebay wrote:

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@ittybitnot wrote:

Had it been an INR PAYMENT DISPUTE (aka chargeback, PP claim etc.)  they make you wait "until the credit card company decides"  EVEN THOUGH YOU COMPLIED and SATISFIED ALL REQUIREMENTS FOR SELLER PROTECTION.  This scenario can take up to a month or more.  Maybe velvet@ebay  can find out why this is the case as well. 

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@ittybitnot you are right that the timeframes differ. This is because we have no control over the payment dispute process given it's being run by the financial institution it was filed with. This is similar to how things worked with PayPal.

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I have to disagree on this velvet@ebay. What @ittybitnot is referring to are the payment disputes where a seller is covered by eBay seller protection regardless of the CC's case decision - like an INR where a package is delivered. I was one of the early adopters of MP, and in the beginning we would call and Payments CS would release the hold on our funds for payment disputes as long we were covered by eBay seller protection. Shortly before the masses were opted in to MP that all changed- now we have to wait out the month or two that CCs take to make their decisions, even when we're covered.

This is not similar to how it worked with PayPal- on PayPal I can still call when a claim is filed and get my funds released immediate as long as I'm covered and met the requirements for PayPal seller protection. On INRs and Unauthorized Use claims they don't make you wait out the CC decision since you're covered no matter what the CC decides.

[ittybitnot]

This is because we have no control over the payment dispute process...

velvet@ebay 

Then why offer protection to sellers and require them to wait?   While I do understand that eBay has no control over whether or not a Payment Dispute is filed by the buyer,  eBay DOES have control as to whether a seller is provided seller protection when all the criteria are met.   They can't determine this themselves? 

For INR: 

If eBay determines that the item was successfully delivered or picked up:

We will not seek reimbursement from the seller for the disputed amount, even if the payment institution decides that the buyer is owed a refund; and
We will waive or refund the seller's dispute fee

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/selling-policies/payment-dispute-seller-protections?id=5293

Who's got the money while all this is going on?  eBay?  Adyen? 

[tev4all]

With the Money Back Guarantee being our claims process, we always encourage buyers to go that route as it allows for more communication between the two members and it also allows for additional eBay involvement. 

velvet@ebay 

I ask, 

Why not make that the first step in the dispute process mandatory for buying members???

So many/x number of disputes filed outside the eBay MBG process would result in sanctions.

Buying members can always choose another route, if they want to.

[bigdeals.etc]

@nuclearomen said:

Yep, that is exactly the point, they should be closing out if tracking shows delivered but instead they have made this process same as INR case where package never arrived... allowing time for communication between seller / buyer to work resolve. Two very different things that should have two different ways of policy. 

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Tbh, I don’t see the need for buyer/seller to communicate within the INR case messages after tracking shows delivered. By policy sellers are 100% covered. Automatically close the case in sellers favor and allow the seller/buyer to communicate thru EBAY MESSAGES. That’s how I’ve always tried to do it. Close the INR, talk thru messages to take care of buyer. It’s worked fine. Also ebay messages get copied to my email, so I have a long term record of communication. Not so if it’s inside the case detail messages.

And I realize I’m going beyond my obligation by talking to the buyer at all. Tbh “allowing time for communication between seller/buyer” is also beyond seller obligation… it’s the sellers choice and eBay is trying to force it upon us? There is no reason to drag it on. Close the INR, let sellers handle it our own way (since it’s not a policy violation), and have eBay deal with the customer if it comes to that. Sounds a bit like eBay wants sellers to do part of eBay’s job here. eBay is holding seller’s money for ransom.

[velvet@ebay]

Apologies for the confusion, I'll try to clarify what I meant.  The process for payment disputes is not something we decide - it's managed by the financial institution from end to end.  We would love for buyers to only open claims on eBay, but in the end, we can only suggest and encourage this - we cannot stop them from going directly to their financial institution to pursue a payment dispute. While we do have protections available to sellers outside of that process, once the financial institution has made their decision, we comply with it.  If it qualifies for our additional protections, we cover the seller and the payment dispute fee.

I do understand where this is coming from though, and I really appreciate this discussion. While I don't have any additional information to provide at this time, especially with the 'why' behind the way things are done, I can provide info about the policies we have in place. The current policy is that once an eMBG claim or payment dispute is started, the funds are placed on hold. Once the financial institution has made their ruling in a payment dispute situation, we go from there with how that will affect the seller.

It's been mentioned that things have changed since our new payment process came about and in all honesty, it will continue to do so. In the meantime, we can pass on your suggestions and frustrations as to how current processes work, and you can as well here. Thank you! 

[nuclearomen]

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@bigdeals.etc wrote:

@nuclearomen said:

Yep, that is exactly the point, they should be closing out if tracking shows delivered but instead they have made this process same as INR case where package never arrived... allowing time for communication between seller / buyer to work resolve. Two very different things that should have two different ways of policy. 

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Tbh, I don’t see the need for buyer/seller to communicate within the INR case messages after tracking shows delivered. By policy sellers are 100% covered. Automatically close the case in sellers favor and allow the seller/buyer to communicate thru EBAY MESSAGES. That’s how I’ve always tried to do it. Close the INR, talk thru messages to take care of buyer. It’s worked fine. Also ebay messages get copied to my email, so I have a long term record of communication. Not so if it’s inside the case detail messages.

And I realize I’m going beyond my obligation by talking to the buyer at all. Tbh “allowing time for communication between seller/buyer” is also beyond seller obligation… it’s the sellers choice and eBay is trying to force it upon us? There is no reason to drag it on. Close the INR, let sellers handle it our own way (since it’s not a policy violation), and have eBay deal with the customer if it comes to that. Sounds a bit like eBay wants sellers to do part of eBay’s job here. eBay is holding seller’s money for ransom.

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I'll respond to a case, but INR where the tracking says delivered and the buyer left feedback...i mean really? And that's just the thing, ebay isn't doing any job, they are letting a system handle it, that is programed to keep cases open for 3 biz days. According to velvet the link to have ebay step in doesn't even appear on the case til after 3 days. When you call ebay they can't close the case because the system won't let them. 

[nuclearomen]

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@vintagecraze50 wrote:

CEO in an interview not too long ago said they really want to keep their long time sellers now.  As they have proven to be a very excellent source of income. If you have bee on here a number of years you have the feedback and trust of the customer in most cases by prior performance. Also, many of the long term sellers are also big time buyers on here. TREAT THEM WELL.

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idk about that, words in an interview are nothing, actions are everything and ebay, long before this CEO has had history of bad decisions and policies. I have been selling ebay 3 years, not as long as many other sellers but in 3 years I had total of 2 returns, and 1 INR (aside from this one, which is false claim) the returns were refunded and the INR was refunded and when buyer got it finally 2 months later they sent it back to me. My feedback proves i'm a good seller, while many many buyers do not leave feedback and "score" is only 638, thousands of transactions have happened without a hitch. I have many repeat buyers and even not all of them leave feedback, but they do come back and buy. Never treated a buyer badly, that won't get you anywhere anyways. I'm in no way a huge seller by any means. Sellers on ebay sell as many items in a day then I sell in month. But I offer good, fast, and professional service and that is why buyers become repeat buyers for me. 

[coffeebean832]

The extended funds holds are inconvenient, however that's not my biggest concern here. I know my opinion will differ from others, but my biggest concerns are-

- INRs have to be manually escalated even when tracking confirms delivery. This should be automated.

- eBay keeps changing the timelines without communicating this information to sellers or updating the policy pages. This causes issues when running our business day to day.

I'm pretty sure others' speculation about an announcement in the Fall Seller Update is accurate. eBay tends to roll out these changes weeks or months in advance of the Seller Updates- leaving us in the dark during that time as to what's going on. It's frustrating. It's time consuming. It's disrespectful.

YMMV