Help! Am I screwed and SOL?

[rix9321]

Buyer claims shipping damage to a laptop that I shipped him. My wife in a rush to buy the postage left with the package and went to USPS to ship the product and didn't buy shipping insurance.

The buy sent some not so clear, highly suspicious, and self incriminating photos and claims the unit powers on and can see the keyboard light and hear a chime, but no picture on the screen and wants a refund. See the hammer on the bottom right of one of the pictures? The marks on the box look like the hammer was used.

What can I do to prevent being taken advantage of? I've never had to deal with this before, so any help is appreciated!

[timemachine777]

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@gramophone-georgwrote:

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@timemachine777wrote:

I am really curious how this claim plays out.

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You don't already know? 

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Under normal circumstances I do, but this one has gotten a lot of attention on the boards. Sometimes that helps a sellers case a little more than usual. I could be wrong though, and eBay will ignore the photo evidence and side with the buyer, while telling the seller "tough luck", take them to court. It's your problem, not ours. As eBay takes action against the seller. 

[rix9321]

Quick Update for everyone: It appears likely ebay will initially rule in my favor for now. I would like to thank everyone who replied with helpful suggestions.

I'm sure the thread has helped, but I also think the key that I got the initial win is because of the buyer's self inflicted "evidence" picture. I don't think every case will be this lucky.

There are still some key gotchas though

1) Buyer can still file an appeal according to ebay. I'm not sure if he will go to that step and if he does how long that takes.

2) Buyer has already left negative feedback for me, so I still need to go through the process of getting that erased.

3) The funds still haven't been released to me for this sale yet.

4) I hope ebay gets their money and didn't use their insurance to pay out this claim since the reason they stated was that they were unable to determine if the product the buyer is showing is the same product. That sounds less defensible to me.

[retrose1]

Uh, did the CS tell you that it will take a day or two before things are fixed?  And did the CS have a foreign accent?

If the answer to those questions is yes, then they told you what they thought you wanted to hear to get you off the phone and they will do nothing and you will lose.  Overseas CS can not do anything except answer questions (usually with the wrong answer) and get you off the phone.

And if ebay finds for you, the buyer will file with paypal and they will tell you that ebay/paypal are seperate companies now and they can not communicate internal decisions about disputes.

I would start telling them that you are filing reports with the PO and if they do not find any damage in the package (they take picktures of every package now - several times in fact, as part of the tracking process - then you will call their local police dept about the porch pirates that damaged the box and item.

[d-k_treasures]

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@pingpong517wrote:

how about simply: RETURN FOR REFUND.  you state that they can return for refund...if they don't wan't to, and they know they are trying to pull a fast one...they may go away.

if they open a case, then fine....if it really was damaged..then you'd have too anyways...if not then they either won't open a case or, then you get it back..paying shipping back -probably, but if it is working fine --then you resell it.....

but start with : return for refund...nothing else...see what they say or do.... you should also report it to security too..the hammer does throw some proof maybe to the package damage.....and you might get a person to also see that ...especially if the buyer starts asking for the moon, and/or gets ugly.

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The OP listed it with no returns. If you reply with return for refund, ebay will hold you to that, instead of the no returns as stated.

[dcintennessee]

Thanks for the update @rix932! I looked yesterday & the negative feedback was gone, so I figured you were just tired of talking about it here. 

I hope your win endures, but I’d proceed as if it will be challenged. Keep ALL documentation. Capture screenshots of tracking, because it vanishes forever in....I think it’s 60 days. Also, I’d still follow through on the suggestion to see if you can get custody of any images available from USPS, before they vanish forever too. Depending upon the size of the town/city of your buyer, I’d call the nearest Postmaster to his home & see if the carrier recalls the delivery. I can post a link for finding that direct phone number. Although not tagged as a damaged box, I bet my carrier would remember if he delivered a box that looked like it was attacked by a hammer...🤣  As others have said, all this evidence may not protect you, but it’s better to have it. 

Now, go take your wife out for dinner, because this probably bothered her even more than it did you. 

[pingpong517]

you know that "no returns" doesn't mean anything to ebay... and no returns , doesn't mean they won't have to refund....
so it's best to say it and test the waters....otherwise...a case will certainly get a refund...returned or not....

[timemachine777]

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@timemachine777wrote:

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@gramophone-georgwrote:

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@timemachine777wrote:

I am really curious how this claim plays out.

---

You don't already know? 

---

Under normal circumstances I do, but this one has gotten a lot of attention on the boards. Sometimes that helps a sellers case a little more than usual. I could be wrong though, and eBay will ignore the photo evidence and side with the buyer, while telling the seller "tough luck", take them to court. It's your problem, not ours. As eBay takes action against the seller. 

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OP has made it past the 1st ebay hurdle.

[softersilk]

I have read much of this but not all. I'm wondering if you reported this to the USPS?  It is mail fraud, which is a federal crime.  

The guy who did this to you probably has done it many times.  He can go to jail for this.  If you have not done so, it is appropriate to call his local USPS manager and his local police.

This is criminal behavior.

[getitright1234]

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@rix9321wrote:

Buyer claims shipping damage to a laptop that I shipped him. My wife in a rush to buy the postage left with the package and went to USPS to ship the product and didn't buy shipping insurance.

The buy sent some not so clear, highly suspicious, and self incriminating photos and claims the unit powers on and can see the keyboard light and hear a chime, but no picture on the screen and wants a refund. See the hammer on the bottom right of one of the pictures? The marks on the box look like the hammer was used.

What can I do to prevent being taken advantage of? I've never had to deal with this before, so any help is appreciated!

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This is a deceptive act.   Why are there no clear photos of the damage to the laptop.   It appears more damage was done to the box (post delivery) than the laptop.  

#1.   The post office would have placed a (notice damage) had it been delivered in that condition.   I would get ahold of the post office and send them these pictures;  see if you can obtain pictures of the scanned condition.  A postal carrier would notice/remember if a package had been delivered in that condition.  

#2.   I would check out this buyer's purchase history and ask those other seller has this buyer alleged damages with them, if yes, encourage those sellers to report this buyer and you do the same.

#3.   Ask the buyer to send you clear pictures of all the sides of the laptop so that you can file and insurance claim.  

Do you have the serial numbers to confirm what you will likely receive back is really your original item?

Good luck.  

[getitright1234]

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@coolectionswrote:

The buyer had to have been very irate because I cannot see any buyer doing what they did just to not have to pay postage for the return. Can you give some details on what led up to a buyer doing such a thing ? Nobody orders an item just to smash it upon arrival. Did you refuse the initial refund ? Is the buyer claiming the computer had many problems that you did not disclose in the listing ? Did you purchase something from them and give bad feedback/make a claim ? Not saying the buyer is right and in fact he is very wrong, but something seems missing from this story.

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The laptop is not smashed, just the box! This is likely going to be a switcharoo!  Buyer  keeps the good delivered laptop only to return something different.  

[getitright1234]

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@castlemagicmemorieswrote:

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@davidelane73wrote:

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@castlemagicmemorieswrote:

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@davidelane73wrote:
The outer box looks like it was damaged without the inner box inside.

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Yes, quite a feat there, wouldn't you say?

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Yep! Even if you flip the inner box around, it doesnt match up. It comes closer to it, but Im still saying they were damaged at seperate times

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I believe you.

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So, the postal facility damaged the exterior box, then opened the exteriror box, proceeded to damage the interior box.....(the logic), this buyer would have the OP and US to believe.   Sheesh, this buyer needs therapy!

[pf9000]

Sometimes it’s legitimate and sometimes it’s staged. We really don’t know if it was the customer or a disgruntled employee at the Shipping Facility. You might try calling the Post Office and asking them if this has happened before. I sold a nice Radio which generated a complaint. The picture showed what appeared to be, some very specific  hammer damage, carefully placed over the dial. On another occasion, an Antique TV Set had a pipe forced into the box imploding the Picture Tube, and the shipper refused to pay anything, stating that the problem was  improper packaging. Ebay and PayPal made the money, not me. Double-boxing helps prevent a lot of these sorts of issues. It costs a little more for shipping, sometimes a lot more, because of the size, however in many cases, the difference in price is very small, and well worth the added protection offered to the item.

[mirror-in-the-attic]

@sparkysretroelectro, after reading all of this, if I “were selling electronics, I think I'd put the serial number right in the listing description.” It MIGHT scare off someone looking for a swap for their defective "identical" item?  If there's any sort of security risk from listing the entire serial number (cell phones?), I'd replace a few random numbers with "x". Of course, there's still nothing to keep them from opening a computer & swapping out whatever part they actually wanted. Thieves...unfortunately they'll find a way to to what they do.

 Does anyone put the serial numbers in the listings?   Do you suggest doing signature confirmation?  I found an old thread from 2012 that said something about Paypal only backing a claim of over 250 if confirmation was used?  

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