eBay

gjlutz · ‎04-29-2018

I sent an item through global shipping and it was damaged during transit. Usually I have had no problem with getting reimbursed in the past for this, until now.... Buyer filed through Paypal as "not as described" instead of filing through Ebay, and because of this it has been a nightmare! It has been 2 weeks, and now Paypal is saying another month to look into this??? My $200 in funds is being held, and I've called them twice with no luck. They informed me that it should have gone through Ebay, (which I'm aware of ), instead of them, but now there is nothing they can do about it. My question is; Is there a chance this will go wrong for me? Why should it be different how they treat the case just because its Paypay and not Ebay? I packed item extremely well and absolutely do not feel that this should be on me, nor do I feel the buyer should lose either. If Global shipping is going to be so difficult to use, then I will not be using them anymore, not worth the risk.

missjen831 · ‎04-30-2018

@rainbowcolorz wrote:
@missjen831 wrote:
@d-k_treasures wrote:
@ittybitnot wrote:
Yep. And this should be written in the GSP policy.

Indeed...for buyers or sellers would be the question that will never get addressed.
What happens when PP is out of the mix?

Will it be either ebay or a chargeback? What would happen if they did a chargeback when ebay takes over payment processing?

Enquiring minds want to know ..........

I don’t think we will get those answers until PayPal is out and adyen is in.

i think it’s reasonable to assume that the seller will still get the short end of the stick though.

I’m curious. Those of you who sell on other venues that accept credit cards that are not processed by PayPal—how are chargebacks handled? Do you get notified? SNAD chargebacks especially.
@missjen831 How can I tell if a cc is not processed by PP? All I see when I receive a payment over ----->
is something that says (I think) Paid via cc and then something about the $ will go into my payments account.

Once, a buyer sent me a convo right after he purchased something and said he made a mistake and didn't mean to purchase the penguin necklace and would I please refund his $. I didn't have any penguin necklace for sale and responded that perhaps he had made a penguin sale from another seller & did he still want the lion necklace he purchased from me? He said to just refund his $ and he would get back to me.

I refunded his $ and it went back to his PP account and the next day I saw he purchased the lion necklace from me but this time it was via his cc. But it never said which cc.

No idea why did did that but I haven't heard a thing and it's been about 4 months.

I guess the seller doesn’t know how the buyer paid. I sell on 2 venues that do accept PayPal BUT the buyer pays the venue and then the seller gets paid by the venue after the items are delivered and accepted by the buyers. If any of my buyers has filed a PP dispute or a chargeback, I was never notified and it didn’t affect me at all. If the buyers paid with a credit card through the venues merchant processor which might even be adyent, again it didn’t affect me and I was not notified. I guess it’s fhe same on the other E? Do they absorb the loss when the buyer pays with CC and not PayPal?

One life is all we have to live
Love is all we have to give

**Formerly known as MissJen316**

pjcdn2005 · ‎04-30-2018

@dhbookds wrote:
@Anonymous

Since the buyer, in addition to what they paid the seller, paid PB for the shipping & customs duties........who pays that back?

I'm not Trinton but I do know that there is no way they can recover money from a seller when the seller never received that money. When the buyer paid for the gsp transaction, it is marked as being 2 payments...one payment to the seller and one payment to PB. They can only reverse the charge, they can't reverse the charge and take away more money than was paid to that person.

Anonymous · ‎04-30-2018

@dhbookds wrote:

@Anonymous

Since the buyer, in addition to what they paid the seller, paid PB for the shipping & customs duties........who pays that back?

Hi @dhbookds, the shipping and customs portion of the payment is paid directly to Pitney Bowes. Since this is a separate transaction that is unrelated to the seller, there would be no way for them to be held responsible for this. The chargeback would be for the amount paid to the seller in that transaction, and a separate chargeback would have to be filed to access the payment made to the third party shipper.

marnotom! · ‎04-30-2018

@missjen831 wrote:

And this should be written in the GSP policy.

Canadian user here. For some time now, I've been trying to find a page or set of pages pertaining to GSP terms and conditions / policies as they pertain to sellers, and all I've been able to find amounts to sophisticated marketing puffery.

This is what buyers agree to when they purchase an item forwarded through the GSP:

http://pages.ebay.ca/shipping/globalshipping/buyer-tnc.html

Do sellers have anything similar?

Sorry to be a bit off topic here, but I'm trying to figure out how seller perceptions of the program are formed. Seeing as buyers are the ones footing the bill for the "ease" and "protection" sellers gain through it, I guess it makes sense that buyers would have to be subjected to all this legalese, but I have yet to find anything similar for sellers. Any leads? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

lovtaco0 · ‎04-30-2018

@pjcdn2005 wrote:
They can't charge you for the international shipping fees or the import fees because you were not paid those fees. The payee on record for those would be PB so that's who they would recover the funds from.

@Anonymous
It seems a bit ridiculous that the seller might be out any money in this situation. Even though it was a chargeback Paypal should still protect the seller since it was gsp and then PP can recover the funds from PB. That's what they would do if it wasn't a chargeback, why can't they do that in this situation?

If I was @gjlutz I would be on the phone with PayPal until they took care of this, even if the best I could do was a courtesy refund.

ittybitnot · ‎04-30-2018

and we are not able to speak to the specifics of other resolution options a buyer may choose to use.

So it seems we are to assume the seller protections offered by the GSP simply do not exist if the buyer files a credit card SNAD complaint for damaged in shipping? All this time, I was under the impression that a seller was not liable for such claims regardless of the funding source. Won't be the first time I was ever wrong. Perhaps that explaination should be put in some policy somewhere to prevent the trial by fire issue we seem to see here.

marnotom! · ‎04-30-2018

@ittybitnot wrote:

So it seems we are to assume the seller protections offered by the GSP simply do not exist if the buyer files a credit card SNAD complaint for damaged in shipping? All this time, I was under the impression that a seller was not liable for such claims regardless of the funding source.

My understanding from what I've read of this thread is that this is not a credit card SNAD complaint, but a credit card chargeback. Different animal.

missjen831 · ‎04-30-2018

@marnotom! wrote:
@ittybitnot wrote:

So it seems we are to assume the seller protections offered by the GSP simply do not exist if the buyer files a credit card SNAD complaint for damaged in shipping? All this time, I was under the impression that a seller was not liable for such claims regardless of the funding source.
My understanding from what I've read of this thread is that this is not a credit card SNAD complaint, but a credit card chargeback. Different animal.

Actually it’s the same animal.

One life is all we have to live
Love is all we have to give

**Formerly known as MissJen316**

gjlutz · ‎04-30-2018

I am the author of this thread:

It started as a Paypal claim "not as described". My buyer emailed me that the item was broken when she received it. I told her to file with Ebay and that they would start the process since it was damaged through Global shipping, but she did not, she filed with Paypal instead. Then I learned earlier today that she filed a charge back claim with her credit card company. I have no idea why it excalated to that, the only thing I can guess is she didnt want to wait for Paypal? At this point I'm wondering if the pictures she sent of the broken item was even mine, they were not very clear, so I am not sure. Regardless, I'm sure she will get her money back, because I know how credit cards work. I am just absolutely blown away that Ebay and Paypal have not disclosed this "loophole" to sellers that are selling items through Global shipping. I feel that it is completely desceptive on their part. The information on the global program does not say anthing regarding this situation. I have always assumed there was little risk, but now I know better. Unfortunatley it always seems to be at the sellers expense...

missjen831 · ‎04-30-2018

She probably filed a chargeback because PayPal would have told her to return the item at her expense since they appear to have been handling this all wrong. Or she got impatient with PayPal dragging their feet. PayPal owes you a refund and an apology.

One life is all we have to live
Love is all we have to give

**Formerly known as MissJen316**

ittybitnot · ‎04-30-2018

I am just absolutely blown away that Ebay and Paypal have not disclosed this "loophole" to sellers that are selling items through Global shipping.

In light of this discussion and the explaination from Trinton, I wonder who is on the hook for an INR compalint made by the buyer of a GSP item via a credti card chargeback? Since it is a "third party" and all???? There are alot of loopholes in the workings of ebay, especially when somebody other than the seller is going to lose some $$$$.

Hopefully, you will keep us updated, and you will not get the "so sorry, it was the credit card company and nothing we could do" typical reply.

missjen831 · ‎04-30-2018

@ittybitnot wrote:
I am just absolutely blown away that Ebay and Paypal have not disclosed this "loophole" to sellers that are selling items through Global shipping.

In light of this discussion and the explaination from Trinton, I wonder who is on the hook for an INR compalint made by the buyer of a GSP item? Since it is a "third party" and all???? There are alot of loopholes in the workings of ebay, especially when somebody other than the seller is going to lose some $$$$.

Hopefully, you will keep us updated.

The gsp as long as long as the seller has proof of delivery to the GSP.

One life is all we have to live
Love is all we have to give

**Formerly known as MissJen316**

marnotom! · ‎04-30-2018

@missjen831 wrote:
@marnotom! wrote:
@ittybitnot wrote:

So it seems we are to assume the seller protections offered by the GSP simply do not exist if the buyer files a credit card SNAD complaint for damaged in shipping? All this time, I was under the impression that a seller was not liable for such claims regardless of the funding source.
My understanding from what I've read of this thread is that this is not a credit card SNAD complaint, but a credit card chargeback. Different animal.
Actually it’s the same animal.

Because the post ends with the statement "regardless of the funding source," I'm interpreting their use of the term "credit card SNAD complaint" to be related to a PayPal process, closely related to a "SNAD complaint" made for an item with payment funded through a PayPal balance or an eCheck.

I've never encountered the term "SNAD complaint" to be used in conjunction with a chargeback filed with a credit card issuer. But then, I'm in Canada, we have slightly different terminology for some matters related to payment. (Our "debit cards" are ATM cards used at POS terminals, for instance.)

ittybitnot · ‎04-30-2018

The gsp as long as long as the seller has proof of delivery to the GSP.

They are supposed to take care of damaged in shipping stuff as well. We can add now ..."unless it is a credit card chargeback". What makes this any different? Credit card SNAD or INR? INR is ok.....Unless it is a credit card chargeback?

doctorfegg · ‎04-30-2018

@Anonymous wrote:
@missjen831 wrote:
@ittybitnot wrote:
The protections that eBay offers would only apply to eBay programs and we are not able to speak to the specifics of other resolution options a buyer may choose to use.

So for a better trading experience when the GSP is involved, a buyer should simply go to their credit card processor for a full refund, and both ebay and PayPal exit the door on the whole thing?

Is there GSP protection for sellers ONLY if a buyer makes an eBay claim?

The gsp terms say the seller is covered whether the buyer files with eBay or PayPal. But getting said seller protection when the buyer files with PP is hard. And it seems as though trintons reply is saying there is only selling protection when the MBG is used. But again the GSP terms say otherwise.
Hi @missjen831, I want to clear up any confusion and clarify that PayPal has protection options for a Global Shipping Program transaction the same as eBay, however, this would not apply to a third party chargeback. While PayPal will work with the seller when a chargeback is opened, they cannot instruct the financial institution to take any specific action nor can the financial institution hold the third party shipper accountable. As you have mentioned, protections are only available from eBay through the eBay Money Back Guarantee and also from PayPal through PayPal Purchase Protection.

So, @Anonymous, why would I or any other seller want to use the GSP option?

From what I have read it seems that eBay is saying that technically PB will be notified of an issue but I have not seen any real solid direction regarding who does the notification. It is more like a "this should happen" but no one is taking responsibility.

Then for eBay to say essentially, "oh well, buyer took a different route so we are out of the mess, too bad" is unacceptable. eBay wants us to use the GSP and raves about the benefits, sellers are using it and then getting no support from eBay when problems arise. Trinton, would you participate in such a program if you were (and maybe are) a seller? Would you be okay with customer service saying your buyer did an end around and filed a charge back and that you are okay with eBay and paypal denying any protection to you?

I used to sell a lot of items internationally. I had been considering using GSP for a long time but these latest reports from at least two sellers reporting that they are getting no support from PB, eBay, or PP tells me that there is no way I will go that route.