Chargeback

[esg-enterprises]

So I had my biggest loss ever this week on ebay made possible by MP. 

A buyer purchased an item from me in mid January. He never onced asked to return or stated a problem with the item. In Late April he opens a chargeback for INAD, totally fictitious.

I was assured by anchor store CSR's I would be fine appealing the case because I was protected by seller protection and the buyer was obviously scamming.

Yesterday I get an email I lost the case and they were taking $1500 from my bank account.

I have called 3 times and spoken to 7 CSR's, mostly in MP, each telling me I have no protection because I could have sent the buyer a different item. Also, he does not have to return my item and ebay is keeping their fees.

I asked 20 years with ebay paying hundreds of thousands in fees and you cant do a thing for me, when PP would have at least made them return the item.  I was told by one MP CSR that ebay can't match what PP provided because PP is a unique situation and actually admitted moving forward I will likely lose every chargeback someone makes. They refused to give any details on the decision or why they made it just that each case is unique.   

Needless to say very demoralizing and I will have to really look to speed up my movement away from ebay. In 20 + years with PP I had 3, maybe 4 disputes which PP closed and in one case made the buyer return my item.  In 8 months in MP I have had 2, one because ebay never refunded the buyer on a cancellation the buyer requested and I refunded!  

Now out  1500 and the money I had in the item. Sux

[southern*sweet*tea]

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@dbfolks166mt wrote:

Prior to managed payments sellers had the option of accepting payment through either PayPal and/or credit cards. After managed payments the seller had no choice with regards to accepting or not accepting credit cards, eBay made that decision for you. 

https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/listings/choosing-get-paid?id=4106 

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Buyers have been able to pay directly with a card for years. They don't  need a Paypal account at all.  You don't even have to have an eBay account to buy here.  I use my debit card to pay directly, haven't use Preypal in years to pay for something here.

When you sell here, regardless if you are a Paypal seller or a managed payments seller, you take cards. You have no choice.

[esg-enterprises]

I don't know you, so don't feel sorry for me.

I can afford the lose, but no denying it sux. 

I understand losing 600+250shipping + 190 in fees plus my labor, expenses, etc. is no big deal to you guys at ebay, but it still is lousy.

If you ever go into business after your done working for ebay, let me know, I would love to deal with someone who enjoys losing money.

[vintagecraze50]

They do allow the input of tracking data to show proof of delivery. As far as helping you submit additional documentation. Not really sure but the one unauthorized chargeback I got was from someone who had stolen someone else’s credit card and I had proof from messages back and forth from the perpetrator. PP would allow further investigation of the cases with ability to upload additional data. 

[otow_18]

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@siamjane8 wrote:

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And under NO circumstance should ebay charge you 20 bucks to fight a chargeback

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The 20 bucks is not to fight the chargeback. Because if eBay wins the chargeback, they cannot charge you the 20 bucks since you won.

eBay can only charge the 20 bucks if they did nothing at all, and you lost.

[little*blackdog]

Exactly! 

99% of the items I sell are under $30. 

Not all of it is "junky" ... LOL

I can sleep at night knowing that's all I have at risk.

If you're going to sell higher priced items you really need to rethink using eBay, or look into some sort of insurance against losses like that... which are basically theft when you look at the facts.

[little*blackdog]

      Not much online is good unless you have your own site and even then you will get chargebacks.  The only way to sell and not have the chargeback hammer over your head, is in person, face-to-face, for cash.  

      Look around your area for flea markets renting booths on the weekends, have garage/yard sales, list on Craigslist and other local venues.  It's a little more physical work to prepare for a flea market, but at the end of the day, with a pocket full of cash, it's a rewarding feeling with no worries about being fleeced electronically!  (You can also have fun believe it or not!)

[little*blackdog]

Very well said!

Where else (in this country) are you held accountable but unable to defend yourself?

The way eBay is handling these CB's  is just wrong on so many levels.

[dbfolks166mt]

I would flip that around and say you are wrong but that is OK opinions are fine here. 😀

[dbfolks166mt]

     Actually prior to MP you DID have a choice as to whether you wanted to accept credit or debit cards as payment, understanding of course that most PayPal payments were just a pass through for credit card transactions. Once you were under MP you had NO choice with regards to accepting credit/debit cards. 

https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/listings/choosing-get-paid?id=4106 

[siamjane8]

     I just received an offer for a high dollar item that would ship to CA this morning- I am wrestling with the idea of accepting but I have zero confidence ebay to protect me . I do not want to end up eating the shipping and loosing my item like ESG did.   AND still letting ebay profit from the fees and the additional 20!

       Unfortunately what we all knew was going to happen, has happened- when ebay announced years ago that it was going to do managed payments- the selling community as a whole realized that it was going to be a disaster that costs us more money with less service and no protection. Here we are!

    Ebay will not change for the better because it is not run by businessmen/women. It is run by lawyers and accountants. They have absolutely no reason to invest in ebay as a platform and make it better because that cost money in the short term to grow and make the company stronger in the long term. Their singular goal is to squeeze as much money as possible out of it NOW to satisfy their inflated salaries and bonusses. Then off to the next company with a big grin on their faces.  This way of running a company will not result in growth or stability as we have all seen- ebay has been in a steady decline for years while identical startup companies are growing ten fold...

   YOU CANT BE A SUCCESS IF YOUR CUSTOMERS DO NOT TRUST YOU EBAY

[tools*]

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@whattheactualfox wrote:

If you do that, ebay may send OP's account to collections. And when it comes to collections in general, they will do whatever they can to get the money back

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You would have to file suit against eBay in small claims court long before that could happen.

[dbfolks166mt]

     I realize it is poorly written but the point is still the same. Prior to MP you did NOT have to accept credit/debit cards as direct payment. Fully understanding that PayPal was often the go between for the credit card company and the seller. However some, myself included simply used the PayPal balance to pay for things or moved money from the bank account to PayPal and never touched a credit card transaction. Same for all the shipping charges that came out of PayPal never once did I have one hit the credit card. 

     Under MP credit and debit cards are one of the required acceptable forms of payment so sellers are tossed into a world where the estimated annual credit card fraud is in excess of $40 billion. Like being a piece of meat tossed into a school of Piranha. 

[dbfolks166mt]

     It's not actually eBay that is charging you the $20 they are simply passing along the fee from the credit card company.  Some interesting reading about online fraud what the current situation is and what the future looks like. Lets all be careful out there. 

https://www.ravelin.com/insights/online-payment-fraud 

[coffeebean832]

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@esg-enterprises wrote:

One funny response is I told a gal yesterday in MP department that I had been told all along I would have ebay protection, she said that was irresponsible of ebay employees to tell me I was protected, she would pass that on so they could be corrected, there is no protection for a seller on ebay....at least she was being honest.

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This is one thing I really hate about eBay. Their reps give out bad info and no matter the damage done to your account, eBay doesn't take responsibility for the reps they hire and the instruction they give. They'll "coach" them to do better next time- but any damage to your account you get to suffer the consequences.

The entire chargeback situation is a complete mess. I was an early adopter of MP and the way chargebacks were handled a couple years ago was different- the protections offered were different. It had its problems- but there was actual seller protection to be found. That's no longer the case- seller protection on chargebacks is so limited it barely exists. The current chargeback situation is not good for sellers- not at all.

[dugoldstuff]

Ebay is facilitating internet fraud and theft with their MP policies!!

It would truly seem so:

A criminal charge of "aiding and abetting" or accessory can usually be brought against anyone who helps in the commission of a crime, though legal distinctions vary by state. A person charged with these accomplice crimes is usually not present when the crime itself is committed, but he or she has knowledge of the crime before or after the fact, and may assist in its commission through advice, actions, or financial support. Depending on the degree of involvement, the offender's participation in the crime may rise to the level of conspiracy.