Buyer return reqest, I think I need help?

[iminbus_18]

I sold a brand new, factory sealed Logitech Harmony remote control with hub on Feb 19th. It was received, now the buyer sent a return request. You need to hear the whole story and why I have a problem with this return. I sent the purchase out on Feb. 20th around 2pm. USPS took they're time scanning this package into their system. At 8:42pm same day, item couldn't be tracked and appeared to never have been dropped off. I immediately messaged the buyer telling him that, I in fact did go to USPS, they do have the package and sometimes packages don't get scanned. I told buyer not to worry, it is on it's way. The next day it arrived at the buyers location, that was Feb. 21. Feb. 23rd, I get a message indicating that this customer has submitted a return request.

This is a Logitech Harmony remote with hub, but, this is not what I sent.

[kitschy*loot]

@iminbus_18 I feel bad you ran into a lying buyer. I think some people are just telling you the cold and very hard facts in their responses, but they do have sympathy for you as well. 

On eBay if a buyer claims an item wasn't as described you will be forced to refund when they open a case. It doesn't matter if it isn't true or not because eBay CS has no way to know who is lying. Just because you say you sent a brand new one does not mean you did... that's how they look at it. The buyer saying you sent a used remote doesn't mean you did, but someone has to lose the case, and eBay decides that 99.9999% of the time it's not going to be the buyer... and that might actually be 100% of the time.

I know it's cruel when you know you're telling the truth, but how do you expect eBay CS to know that? Sellers lie all the time just like buyers do... but like I said; someone has to lose when a decision is made.

From what I have read the only protection from item not as described cases is being a top rated seller who offers 30 day free returns. I believe those sellers are able to deduct 50% from the refund which is better than nothing I suppose. Buyers will usually go to eBay and get the rest of the money but I think that comes from them. 

[gator08041971]

Thankfully, the amount of bad sellers is rather low, but they tend to target specific items.  High value items, electronic items, jewelry, that sort of thing.

I have encountered a few shady ones, but nothing overly bad..  Yet.  But I do a lot to minimize the attention/risk.

For the past year now, I have taken to photographing the packaging of the item, any serial numbers, etc and a picture of the package with their shipping label affixed, and sending that through the eBay message system to the buyer so they know what to expect.  I now do this for every single item I sell.  Feedback about it, both with replies and feedback in general has been mostly positive.  But I figure it this way.  It may minimize the chance of a problem, especially since the item/packaging/package has been documented through eBay's message system.

For all I know, that's a useless effort, but from my perspective, its there.  If I had to get into a dispute, I can point at it if need be, though I will not rely on that as a way out.

[dbfolks166mt]

Thank you everyone for your help.. I get what you are saying. So I could by a brand new $5000  laptop from a seller, then claim they sent me a used item and I could get the money I spent on the purchase returned and keep the new item I received? I would never do anything such as this. To think others can and get away with it is sad. It's criminal behavior and it can't be stopped.. Wow!

     Pretty much. You could do so either through an eBay NAD claim or through a chargeback with your CC company. There are probably some things eBay could do with regards to buyer patterns and behavior just as the CC companies do with chargebacks but that takes resources and that cuts into the bottom line. 

     The CC companies are a but hamstrung at the moment under the current Federal Laws. 

[hachumi]

Welcome to Ebay!
lot's of people use Ebay to get rid of their broken junk and get new just by lying.
All they have to do is loan eBay the purchase price for a week or two, then box and ship your old junk.
Ebay always sides with the buyer no matter how many pictures you take or hoops you jump through.
They will side with you once if you have been doing this for awhile.
I've had this happen a few times and have already used up my freebee.
Hence I only sell things at 100.00 or less and things that are cheap to ship (you have to eat shipping twice so you can see the logic here.)
Good Luck!

[fashunu4eeuh]

If they return a used item to you, they have committed a serious federal offense by using the mail-stream to commit fraud.  

There are several things you can do.

First, contact the US Postal Inspectors and make a fraud report. This can be done online. Be sure to keep notes and write down the case number assigned to your report. Here’s the link:

https://www.uspis.gov/report

Then make an online report to the FBIs Internet Crime Complaint Center at 

ic3.gov and document the report number. See link below.

https://www.ic3.gov/

Next, report the theft to the police in your jurisdiction and theirs. Explain you need the case number to appeal the fraudulent case to eBay. 

Once all this has been accomplished, use these case documents to appeal to eBay to reverse the refund decision. The how-to appeal is below.

https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/managing-returns-refunds/appeal-outcome-case-seller?id=4369#sectio...

By the way, in the future, always wait in line at the PO to get an acceptance scan to prove you mailed your item within your handling time. It’s a pain, but a necessary one to protect your best interests.

Good luck, and hope this gets resolved to your benefit.

PS—you can always sue the buyer in Small Claims Court too.

[superfectabox]

Yes.....sadly, you appear to be getting scammed and you are rightfully upset....I fully understand....but sadly, welcome to the club.

[az93]

It is very disheartening to see the lack of support ebay gives it's sellers.

[lonebuck-books]

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@iminbus_18 wrote:

But, I sent a brand new factory sealed item and the customer is saying a used item was in the box which just isn't true. This customer obviously has replaced the new one with a used one.

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So, what on earth does the delivery delay have to do with anything?  The buyer didn't say anything about it, neither should you.  It is literally useless information regarding this case.  The buyer opened a MBG case which gives your two options, and two options only.  Either accept the return and fight the refund amount when you get the wrong item back or issue a refund now and the buyer gets his money back without the return.  

I would do the first but it is up to you.  Whatever you do, if you contest the returned item with eBay, for the love of all that is holy stick to the facts of the case and don't give any non-relevant information.  eBay won't read it and will rule against you if you send them a bunch of info that literally has nothing to do with the case.

[lonebuck-books]

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@iminbus_18 wrote:

Thank you everyone for your help.. I get what you are saying. So I could by a brand new $5000  laptop from a seller, then claim they sent me a used item and I could get the money I spent on the purchase returned and keep the new item I received? I would never do anything such as this. To think others can and get away with it is sad. It's criminal behavior and it can't be stopped.. Wow!

---

Yeah, that's pretty much it.  That is why experienced sellers tell new sellers over and over again do not sell any expensive item on eBay, especially in the electronics category.  It is a huge target for scammers.  You can submit a USPS fraud report and they may investigate it. They used to be very serious and harsh with their punishment for fraud but I suspect they are buried under a mountain of reports these days so who knows what they would do over such a small value.

[yoonix1]

In such case I would estimate my losses, and go the least painful way for me. Obviously there is a scam/fraud, and I would report the Buyer to Ebay, and block the Buyer's ID.

If you're a TR Seller Plus, may be you will have an option for a partial refund to Buyer.

[deltilogical]

Is it worth trying to head off the scammer -  telling them the image they sent you is not the item sent?

Ebay is not protecting the sellers from these criminals.  Why is Ebay so weak but facebook marketplace seems to function without these issues, without any controls? 

are the youtube videos showing how to conduct this fraud the problem - once again Google is promoting crime against Americans!   Just say its hazardous material?

[powell-memorabilia]

I don’t think the buyer is a scammer. In your own pictures, the item doesn’t look factory sealed. You can even see where the sticker has been cut so that the box can be opened. Was this a return that you are reselling? An overstock item?

[playwithitagaintoys]

Other very real possibility is you where duped into thinking your item is new.

That's not a factory sealed item you sold. Factory sealed from Logitech would be shrink wrapped.  Yours just has, readily available to anyone, round pieces of tape.

[vintage-camerastuff]

Of course you are being ripped off.  Lots of dishonest buyers on ebay.  Maybe they will all burn in Hell!  But until then you lose $130.   You are lucky it is only 130 and not 1300.

[powell-memorabilia]

It isn’t a bad buyer - seller listed a used item as new.  Buyer received used item, and is rightfully requesting a return and refund.  Process working as designed.  Best case, seller made an honest mistake.  Worst case, seller knowingly misrepresented an item.  Not sure how this gets flipped into being a scammy buyer.