eBay

shopkiger2 · ‎01-04-2020

Hi all,

I accepted an offer on an item on December 22nd. The buyer didn't pay or contact me so I opened an unpaid item case. The buyer messaged me on the 28th and said that he was having trouble with his account and would pay ASAP. On the 30th I messaged him and asked if he was still having trouble with his account. He didn't respond so I waited til January 2nd and decided to close the unpaid item case and relisted the item.

Today the buyer opened a case requesting the item.

The message I got from ebay:

You're buyer opened a request because their item hasn't arrived. It is important for you to respond as soon as possible. You can resolve your buyers request by providing tracking information or any additional shipping details. If you do not have tracking that shows delivery, please consider refunding your buyer.

After clicking "See request details" I am given the options to either, Message the buyer, add tracking details or refund the buyer.

I've never had anyone open a request like this for an item that was never paid for or that has had a closed unpaid item case. How does this work??

shopkiger2 · ‎01-04-2020

That's what I told the CSR. He told me to message the buyer. I told him I already did and didn't know what else to say.

chapeau-noir · ‎01-04-2020

@shopkiger2 wrote:
That's what I told the CSR. He told me to message the buyer. I told him I already did and didn't know what else to say.

I'd try a different CSR and get a better explanation. If the buyer, say, forgot that they never paid for their dingus and opened an INR because of that, they need to close it, but if they won't, I would become concerned that they'd escalate it and eBay compounds the mistake by closing it against you - it just seems really messed up to me.

“The illegal we do immediately, the unconstitutional takes a little longer.” - Henry Kissinger

"Do not obey in advance." Timothy Snyder "On Tyranny"

parkersparrow · ‎01-04-2020

I've had this happen once. Buyer didn't pay and they were somehow able to open an INR. I was able to get it closed right away. I'm thinking you got a rep that didn't understand the problem. Try calling again and if you still get nowhere ask to speak to a supervisor.

gramophone-georg · ‎01-04-2020

@shopkiger2 wrote:
That's what I told the CSR. He told me to message the buyer. I told him I already did and didn't know what else to say.

Tell him this isn't a buyer- Buyers pay for stuff. Maybe he can understand THAT.

Well, pshaw. "Bring your own emoticon" does't work any more either. These improvements ROCK!!!

Chaos is NOT an "industry standard".

beardedbovine · ‎01-05-2020

This is the second post I read today about this happening. Didn't we used to be able to get these INRs closed?

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Shipping-Returns/The-Level-Of-Utter-Insanity-At-Ebay/m-p/30559285#M304...

@Anonymous, is this a new process or is this a case of 2 different CS reps that need to learn the proper procedure? A UPI has been open and shut without payment... an INR was opened for "communication" purposes... why would eBay force the INR to stay open for 21 days when a seller calls and informs eBay there is no payment, no transaction so the INR is not relevant? Why can't a seller call to get it closed out in their favor? We're not talking about items in special categories with different payment methods available... these are regular listings with regular tracked shipping with regular non-paying buyers attempting to get refunds for items they never paid for.

coco9619 · ‎01-05-2020

@Anonymous wrote:
[T]his would not be a loophole requiring attention but instead
[This] is the intended design.
Since we are not always able to recognize payment, we want to allow a buyer to open a request through the eBay Money Back Guarantee in case they did pay for the item and have proof of this. If the buyer does not provide proof of payment, the seller would win any escalated claim. When a seller is certain that they did not receive payment, they should have not [sic] concerns with an open request and can respond as they see fit to help clarify this for the buyer.

We have no bahamas today.

shopkiger2 · ‎01-06-2020

The buyer was apparently concerned that they would no longer be able to purchase the item for the price they originally offered. When I told him I was still willing to accept the same offer the INR was closed.

Anonymous · ‎01-06-2020

@coco9619 wrote:

@Anonymous wrote:

[T]his would not be a loophole requiring attention but instead

[This] is the intended design.

Since we are not always able to recognize payment, we want to allow a buyer to open a request through the eBay Money Back Guarantee in case they did pay for the item and have proof of this. If the buyer does not provide proof of payment, the seller would win any escalated claim. When a seller is certain that they did not receive payment, they should have not [sic] concerns with an open request and can respond as they see fit to help clarify this for the buyer.

Hi @coco9619, I wanted to add a link to the quote you have provided from me, as this ensures there is no confusion that may arise from comparing similar situations. You can find my original response that you've quoted here: https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/Buyer-wants-refund-on-item-they-didn-t-pay-for-already-filed/m-p/27942629#M1119367

I appreciate you sharing our clarification of policy from other other discussions and only ask that when you quote my responses from other threads, please include a link to that post so members of the Community can see all the related context for my past replies. Thanks!

elizavellaartdesigns · ‎01-06-2020

i had the same thing happen to me and i messaged the buyer and told them that they were commiting fraud and that ebay will close their account for it. I also informed them that ebay has a record the buyer did not pay. as soon as i did that they closed it. and it was a best offer as well. Thats why i rarely do best offers any more. I really dont know how ebay can allow buyers who dont pay to open up cases like this especially when it shows the buyers has not paid yet.

wesk_36 · ‎01-06-2020

"You're buyer opened a request because their item hasn't arrived. It is important for you to respond as soon as possible. You can resolve your buyers request by providing tracking information or any additional shipping details. If you do not have tracking that shows delivery, please consider refunding your buyer."

-ebay message.

According to this post from trinton on a similar case;

"I understand that there are some concerns raised here on the thread about a seller having to take extra steps or potentially receiving a defect on their account and I am happy to reassure everyone that if a seller was not paid, then they have nothing to worry about and do not have to take any additional steps."
https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/Buyer-wants-refund-on-item-they-didn-t-pay-for-already-filed/m...

That sounds reassuring, but if this happened to me, I would still be wary about not following the ebay message dictates," It is important for you to respond as soon as possible" without thinking that ebay might penalize me or give a refund to a non-paying member if I didn't respond.

So, is this true? Can a seller completely ignore an INR claim opened fraudulently or otherwise, by a buyer who didn't pay, and ignore ebay and the buyer claim and not suffer repercussions later?

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Posting ID

moondogblues · ‎01-06-2020

"No because at this stage it’s just a request my understanding is it can’t be escalated to a case. Even if it could it can’t be decided in the buyers favor because without using an online approved payment the buyer doesn’t qualify for buyer protection "

There is an older thread concerning this very issue that has come alive again, the issue and the other thread. Worth reading.

coffeebean832 · ‎01-06-2020

I just saw that revival. The thread is from 2 years ago and at that time Trinton said a seller could escalate the INR to have it closed out. It appears that's no longer the case in 2020- now Trinton says we have to wait for the INR to time out. I don't know when this process for INRs when there's a closed UPI changed, but clearly it did.

Anonymous · ‎01-06-2020

@elizavellaartdesigns wrote:

i had the same thing happen to me and i messaged the buyer and told them that they were commiting fraud and that ebay will close their account for it. I also informed them that ebay has a record the buyer did not pay. as soon as i did that they closed it. and it was a best offer as well. Thats why i rarely do best offers any more. I really dont know how ebay can allow buyers who dont pay to open up cases like this especially when it shows the buyers has not paid yet.

Hi @elizavellaartdesigns, it is not considered fraud to open a request for an item that has not been received even when the buyer has not paid - this is most commonly considered to simply be a mistake, due to some confusion on your buyer's part. It is entirely possible the believe they paid, and there is also the chance that they did pay, but this failed to record. When a buyer contacts you about an item they have not paid for, the best recommendation is to let them know that you did not receive payment.

I want to clarify that a buyer has been able to open a request even when there is no record of payment for many years now. These requests are for communication purposes only, as part of the eligibility requirements for the eBay Money Back Guarantee is that the item was paid for. Neither the buyer nor the seller would be able to ask eBay to step in on a request where there has been no payment, and these requests would have absolutely no impact on your selling account. If for some reason the buyer was able to ask us to step in, not only would we close the case in the seller's favor since the buyer didn't pay, but it would not be possible to close the case in the buyer's favor as this would attempt to refund the buyer, and there would be no payment to refund.

@coffeebean832, I want to add that there has been no change to our policy that allows a seller to ask eBay to step in on an item not received request when there is tracking that confirms delivery. This situation differs, because a transaction without payment is not eligible for the eBay Money Back Guarantee, so we cannot be asked to step in and make a decision. The "transaction" essentially did not happen, as the item is not paid for - this will not create a defect, be recorded on the seller's Service Metrics, or any other impact you can think of. The seller would be protected fully.

coffeebean832 · ‎01-06-2020

@Anonymous wrote:
@coffeebean832, I want to add that there has been no change to our policy that allows a seller to ask eBay to step in on an item not received request when there is tracking that confirms delivery.

I didn't think the process for tracked items changed. My reply was in response to another thread- old but revived by another poster today- where a UPI was closed without payment. Your statement was, "If the buyer does not provide proof of payment, the seller would win any escalated claim." (link) This was from 2 years ago so I made an assumption the policy had changed since then- that sellers used to be able to escalate when a UPI was closed without payment but now they could not.

@Anonymous wrote:
a transaction without payment is not eligible for the eBay Money Back Guarantee, so we cannot be asked to step in and make a decision.

I can understand that.

@Anonymous wrote:
The "transaction" essentially did not happen, as the item is not paid for - this will not create a defect, be recorded on the seller's Service Metrics, or any other impact you can think of. The seller would be protected fully.

That's good information, thank you.

Trinton, I think this question keeps coming up because when an INR is opened even in a situation where a UPI is closed without payment- eBay presents options such as refunding the buyer and they don't say anything about a seller not having to worry about a defect or service metrics.

I'm sure the refund link would not work if a seller mistakenly clicked on it- but the point is that the INR appears to sellers the same way it does as if the seller actually did have to take action other than a simple dialogue with the buyer to answer their questions. It presents as if the seller has to worry about the usual- defects, service metrics, etc.

eBay could improve the system and eliminate a lot of the questions if the INR presented different specifically when a UPI is closed with no recorded payment. Alternately, the buyer could be directed to message the seller before opening an INR.

I understand the system is working as intended- and I understand eBay's reasoning why- but since the issue keeps coming up maybe eBay can recognize there's some room for improvement in the process?

Thanks for the detailed response above- it's appreciated.

Anonymous · ‎01-06-2020

@coffeebean832 wrote:

@Anonymous wrote:

@coffeebean832, I want to add that there has been no change to our policy that allows a seller to ask eBay to step in on an item not received request when there is tracking that confirms delivery.

I didn't think the process for tracked items changed. My reply was in response to another thread- old but revived by another poster today- where a UPI was closed without payment. Your statement was, "If the buyer does not provide proof of payment, the seller would win any escalated claim." (link) This was from 2 years ago so I made an assumption the policy had changed since then- that sellers used to be able to escalate when a UPI was closed without payment but now they could not.

@Anonymous wrote:

a transaction without payment is not eligible for the eBay Money Back Guarantee, so we cannot be asked to step in and make a decision.

I can understand that.

@Anonymous wrote:

The "transaction" essentially did not happen, as the item is not paid for - this will not create a defect, be recorded on the seller's Service Metrics, or any other impact you can think of. The seller would be protected fully.

That's good information, thank you.

Trinton, I think this question keeps coming up because when an INR is opened even in a situation where a UPI is closed without payment- eBay presents options such as refunding the buyer and they don't say anything about a seller not having to worry about a defect or service metrics.

I'm sure the refund link would not work if a seller mistakenly clicked on it- but the point is that the INR appears to sellers the same way it does as if the seller actually did have to take action other than a simple dialogue with the buyer to answer their questions. It presents as if the seller has to worry about the usual- defects, service metrics, etc.

eBay could improve the system and eliminate a lot of the questions if the INR presented different specifically when a UPI is closed with no recorded payment. Alternately, the buyer could be directed to message the seller before opening an INR.

I understand the system is working as intended- and I understand eBay's reasoning why- but since the issue keeps coming up maybe eBay can recognize there's some room for improvement in the process?

Thanks for the detailed response above- it's appreciated.

Hi @coffeebean832, I think over time I've begun to focus more on the inability for these types of requests to "escalated" to eBay because of the increased focus I've seen from our sellers on the potential for this to harm their selling account/Service Metrics. Though it should not be possible for either party to ask us to step in when a buyer didn't pay, if this does somehow happen, the seller would win any request that eBay is asked to make a decision on. Nothing has changed in the past few years with our policy or procedure, but as the focal point of conversations have changed, my response to these situations has evolved as well.

The feedback to have it more clearly communicated to sellers that a request is not eligible for the eBay Money Back Guarantee has been passed along, and is under consideration with the appropriate teams. Ultimately, sellers should know that they are protected if the buyer hasn't paid - this is an eligibility requirement for the eBay Money Back Guarantee that is outlined in our site resources. While we may make adjustments to our messaging in the future, until that time I'm happy to clarify here when needed.

One think I do want to touch on is that in the past I've often seen sellers respond to this situation with comments like, 'eBay should let us me know I don't have to do anything,' or 'why am told I have to respond to a buyer who didn't pay when there won't be any consequences if I don't'. No matter what kind of messaging we have or one day will have for these situations, I want to stress that there remains a potential customer who is in need of help. Most of the time, these buyers are new to the site, confused about the details of the transaction, and would benefit from the guidance of an experienced seller. A seller is not at any risk in a situation where the buyer hasn't paid, and I would strongly recommend taking the time to politely inform the buyer that payment was not received. This helps to create a positive experience for the buyer, and potentially secures a long term customer (who would be much more knowledgeable about the proper steps to complete payment!).