Buyer didn’t request a return through eBay, instead returned to sender

[nawsetleigh]

A buyer bought an item from me on the 18th. I have a 2 day handling period. I offer 30 day returns with buyer paid shipping. I dropped the item off at USPS on the 20th and later that day the buyer sent me a message saying that all I had done was create the shipping label but hadn’t shipped out their item yet and they wanted to cancel their order if it wasn’t going to arrive by Thursday the 23rd. I informed them that I had shipped out their item already and it does take time for tracking to update sometimes. They messaged back saying they asked to cancel the order if it’s not gonna be there by the 23rd unless I’m doing two day priority mail shipping. I informed them of the two day handling period as well as that I only offered USPS ground shipping and that I had already dropped off their order at USPS before their request to cancel. I apologized as well if the item did not arrive on the day that they wanted. They did not reply after that. Their item was delivered on Saturday the 25th but then on Monday the 27th they took it back to USPS and tried to send it to a different address claiming it wasn’t theirs. That address did not exist so the USPS is now sending it back to sender, which is me. The buyer reported that they did not receive their item on the 28th and is requesting a refund. I messaged the buyer asking that they verify their address and make sure it was correct since it had been delivered, and I saw on the tracking that then it had been sent to somewhere else and that address did not exist, and now it was being sent back to me. I contacted USPS and asked what had happened. They informed me that the item had been delivered on the 25th but then brought back to them on the 27th claiming that it was not theirs and gave them a different address to go to. That address did not exist, and therefore they are sending back to me. I messaged the buyer again and explained that to them and again requested that they verify their info so that we can figure out why they did not receive their item and get it to them. The buyer responded saying that yes the item had been delivered, but sent back to sender and that he is waiting on  a refund or having eBay step in if he hasn’t received it by November 2nd. To me, he all but admitted that yes, he had received the item and just decided to send it back instead of doing a request for a return and pay the shipping costs like I have in my return policy. 

I do not have a problem with refunding him if he had gone about it the correct way in doing a return and instead of sending it back to sender so that he can avoid shipping fees and placing it on me. If I request eBay to step in, will they decide in my favor or will it be a mark against me and I will still have to refund plus pay the shipping  costs? What is the best way to go about this? As well as maybe report him so that he does not do this to other sellers? Am I just gonna have to eat the costs and completely refund him? 

[dolcetreasures]

No way, the dollar amount doesn’t matter. He should not refund a single penny until the item is returned period.

[stainlessenginecovers]

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@grand-and-glorious-purpose wrote:

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@stainlessenginecovers wrote:

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Your buyer did not opt themselves out of the MBG?

I would be on the phone with ebay and asking them why they are allowing your buyers to refuse items and still covering them under the MBG.

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I think you have no idea what a Charge Back is. 

It has nothing to do with 'opting in' or 'opting out' of anything to do with this site or any site. 

A customer goes directly to their credit card and ebay cannot do a thing about it. 

[hardrhymer76]

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@nawsetleigh wrote:

 He’s just wanting out of paying for shipping. Is there a way I can refund him minus the return shipping?

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Unless I'm misunderstanding, there was no return shipping paid. Wasn't this just a "Return to Sender" situation, or did USPS charge your account to send it back to you?

[nawsetleigh]

I guess I am just sorta assuming. As I didn’t know what would happen. I didn’t think that usps would just ship it back for free and assumed that I would be charged for it. I looked up on the internet if there was a charge for sending an item back to sender and everything I was reading said that the sender was charged shipping in cases where the item is sent back to the sender. That’s where my biggest deal about this whole thing is. Besides the principle of the whole thing. I just didn’t want to be out the money for shipping it back to me. 

[nawsetleigh]

Thank you. It all adds up in the end. Just because I’m not selling items that I make $100 off of doesn’t mean it’s not my income. As little as it may be. Everything adds up. 

I called eBay and they did tell me that they are in my favor and the case will close on Saturday. I had wanted to do the right thing, even if he didn’t and refund him minus shipping as per my refund policy. But I don’t know how to go about that at this point. So because of this guy’s actions, he’s just gonna be out the money and I’m going to have the item back that I can sell again. Karma. 

[hardrhymer76]

You should do what you feel is right, but I advise putting your principles aside and refunding the buyer the full amount they paid on the original order details page (minus any sales tax). That nullifies their opportunity to file a CC chargeback, which you don't want. That would cost you more than than the original shipping you're saving in the form of chargeback fees and seller standing with eBay.

As far as return shipping, it's common practice for USPS to charge no fee for "Return to Sender" on letters and related items. I've seen that practice extend to packages, although they would obviously have to draw the line somewhere. Keep an eye out for it in your mailbox or porch -- there's a good chance you won't be charged.

[bashort]

I had a buyer buy a furnace part, never open it, keep it for a few days then "refuse" it and it came back to me.

I had no idea until then that you can take a item back to the PO and "refuse it".

I just refunded {except original shipping) and went on, much worse ways to get a return. 

[fern*wood]

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@bashort wrote:

I had a buyer buy a furnace part, never open it, keep it for a few days then "refuse" it and it came back to me.

I had no idea until then that you can take a item back to the PO and "refuse it".

I just refunded {except original shipping) and went on, much worse ways to get a return. 

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I just had a package come back for bad address with forwarding order expired and this is what I did.   I wasn't out anything, didn't count as a return and I relisted. 

[hotwheelsbum]

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@nawsetleigh wrote:

I called eBay and they did tell me that they are in my favor and the case will close on Saturday. I had wanted to do the right thing, even if he didn’t and refund him minus shipping as per my refund policy. But I don’t know how to go about that at this point. So because of this guy’s actions, he’s just gonna be out the money and I’m going to have the item back that I can sell again. Karma. 

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Don't bet on this being over coming this Saturday. Buyer has a way better chance at Not losing his Money than you do. All Buyer has to do is dispute it with his CC. You will lose, it's the ebay way. THEN you will be out the $10 item earnings, ALL fees ebay collected. Shipping both ways, AND an additional $20 fee from ebay for the dispute charge. So that $10 item you STOOD by your PRINCIPLES on just cost you $40-$50.

Principles are one thing. Not losing money on ebay is another. Your Principles mean nothing on ebay. Principles are a loss factor in the whole scheme of ebay. We understand you're New. We are trying to teach a valuable lesson here. Sometimes you take a loss no matter what your Principles are. This was a $10 item with a $5 shipping cost. What did you have in those clips? $1? So basically your total losses could have just been $6-$7 by refunding this Buyer in full when you got them Clips back. Then you could have sold them again for another $10 breaking even on the whole ordeal. But instead you chose to go **bleep** for Tat over a $10 item based on Principles. 

My bet, Buyer is hard headed also. IF you try to "get him" over that $5, he's going to go the next route himself. CC dispute possibly. You will lose in the long run. When it comes to ebay, it's wise to choose your battles carefully. Many Sellers here are going to agree with me. THIS battle here was not worth fighting over for this $10 item. 

Good Luck. 

[12345jamesstamps]

I wouldn't do anything including responding back  to this buyer.

I would wait for item returned.

Buyer needs to open an eBay claim for a refund after item returned.

And block the buyer after item is returned.

[nawsetleigh]

I did ask eBay about if he were to go to his cc and dispute it if that would affect me and was told no. Because he did receive his item and shipping shows so. And he didn’t go about returning it the proper way. So they told me I would be protected. He definitely does seem like the type to get his way and go dispute it on his cc. But eBay told me I was protected. I don’t think they would have told me that if they don’t know for sure. I may be wrong. And it definitely seems like you think I am being ridiculous. And I seriously don’t have a problem refunding him. Other than the principle of the whole thing like I said. I just didn’t want to pay shipping for his mistake. Though I’m not even sure I would have had to anymore anyways. I just read online that I was gonna be charged shipping for the item coming back to me. But people on here doesn’t think I will be. But that’s why I have my return policy buyer pays shipping in the first place. To protect myself from going in the hole from people returning items that are brand new and has no problems. 

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@hotwheelsbum wrote:

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@nawsetleigh wrote:

I called eBay and they did tell me that they are in my favor and the case will close on Saturday. I had wanted to do the right thing, even if he didn’t and refund him minus shipping as per my refund policy. But I don’t know how to go about that at this point. So because of this guy’s actions, he’s just gonna be out the money and I’m going to have the item back that I can sell again. Karma. 

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Don't bet on this being over coming this Saturday. Buyer has a way better chance at Not losing his Money than you do. All Buyer has to do is dispute it with his CC. You will lose, it's the ebay way. THEN you will be out the $10 item earnings, ALL fees ebay collected. Shipping both ways, AND an additional $20 fee from ebay for the dispute charge. So that $10 item you STOOD by your PRINCIPLES on just cost you $40-$50.

Principles are one thing. Not losing money on ebay is another. Your Principles mean nothing on ebay. Principles are a loss factor in the whole scheme of ebay. We understand you're New. We are trying to teach a valuable lesson here. Sometimes you take a loss no matter what your Principles are. This was a $10 item with a $5 shipping cost. What did you have in those clips? $1? So basically your total losses could have just been $6-$7 by refunding this Buyer in full when you got them Clips back. Then you could have sold them again for another $10 breaking even on the whole ordeal. But instead you chose to go **bleep** for Tat over a $10 item based on Principles. 

My bet, Buyer is hard headed also. IF you try to "get him" over that $5, he's going to go the next route himself. CC dispute possibly. You will lose in the long run. When it comes to ebay, it's wise to choose your battles carefully. Many Sellers here are going to agree with me. THIS battle here was not worth fighting over for this $10 item. 

Good Luck. 

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@hotwheelsbum wrote:

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@nawsetleigh wrote:

I called eBay and they did tell me that they are in my favor and the case will close on Saturday. I had wanted to do the right thing, even if he didn’t and refund him minus shipping as per my refund policy. But I don’t know how to go about that at this point. So because of this guy’s actions, he’s just gonna be out the money and I’m going to have the item back that I can sell again. Karma. 

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Don't bet on this being over coming this Saturday. Buyer has a way better chance at Not losing his Money than you do. All Buyer has to do is dispute it with his CC. You will lose, it's the ebay way. THEN you will be out the $10 item earnings, ALL fees ebay collected. Shipping both ways, AND an additional $20 fee from ebay for the dispute charge. So that $10 item you STOOD by your PRINCIPLES on just cost you $40-$50.

Principles are one thing. Not losing money on ebay is another. Your Principles mean nothing on ebay. Principles are a loss factor in the whole scheme of ebay. We understand you're New. We are trying to teach a valuable lesson here. Sometimes you take a loss no matter what your Principles are. This was a $10 item with a $5 shipping cost. What did you have in those clips? $1? So basically your total losses could have just been $6-$7 by refunding this Buyer in full when you got them Clips back. Then you could have sold them again for another $10 breaking even on the whole ordeal. But instead you chose to go **bleep** for Tat over a $10 item based on Principles. 

My bet, Buyer is hard headed also. IF you try to "get him" over that $5, he's going to go the next route himself. CC dispute possibly. You will lose in the long run. When it comes to ebay, it's wise to choose your battles carefully. Many Sellers here are going to agree with me. THIS battle here was not worth fighting over for this $10 item. 

Good Luck. 

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@hotwheelsbum wrote:

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@nawsetleigh wrote:

I called eBay and they did tell me that they are in my favor and the case will close on Saturday. I had wanted to do the right thing, even if he didn’t and refund him minus shipping as per my refund policy. But I don’t know how to go about that at this point. So because of this guy’s actions, he’s just gonna be out the money and I’m going to have the item back that I can sell again. Karma. 

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Don't bet on this being over coming this Saturday. Buyer has a way better chance at Not losing his Money than you do. All Buyer has to do is dispute it with his CC. You will lose, it's the ebay way. THEN you will be out the $10 item earnings, ALL fees ebay collected. Shipping both ways, AND an additional $20 fee from ebay for the dispute charge. So that $10 item you STOOD by your PRINCIPLES on just cost you $40-$50.

Principles are one thing. Not losing money on ebay is another. Your Principles mean nothing on ebay. Principles are a loss factor in the whole scheme of ebay. We understand you're New. We are trying to teach a valuable lesson here. Sometimes you take a loss no matter what your Principles are. This was a $10 item with a $5 shipping cost. What did you have in those clips? $1? So basically your total losses could have just been $6-$7 by refunding this Buyer in full when you got them Clips back. Then you could have sold them again for another $10 breaking even on the whole ordeal. But instead you chose to go **bleep** for Tat over a $10 item based on Principles. 

My bet, Buyer is hard headed also. IF you try to "get him" over that $5, he's going to go the next route himself. CC dispute possibly. You will lose in the long run. When it comes to ebay, it's wise to choose your battles carefully. Many Sellers here are going to agree with me. THIS battle here was not worth fighting over for this $10 item. 

Good Luck. 

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[nawsetleigh]

I was gonna refund him minus shipping. But I don’t know how to except for refund him the whole thing. It won’t give me any other option because of the case being open. And I am sure that there is no reasoning with him to come upon him closing the case so I can refund him minus shipping. That’s my understanding. Is he has to close the case and we both have to come to an agreement on the refund in order to pay something different than pay him back all of it. So because I don’t know how to do it he’s just gonna be out the money. I haven’t received the item back yet. So who knows if he did do something to it or not.

[nawsetleigh]

Thank you for actually being kind in your response and advice. I was under the impression I would be charged for shipping. So thank you for explaining that to me.

If eBay told me that I would be protected even if he disputed with his cc, do you think that that is a lie they told me? I don’t know why they would tell me that if I wasn’t gonna be protected from it. They could have said I don’t know or something. 

What I guess I don’t understand about disputing with cc is wouldn’t anyone dispute any sort of transaction that they just decided, oh. I don’t feel like actually paying that. So if I dispute it, I’ll get my money back. That’s pretty much what he would be doing. Shouldn’t his cc company actually look into the matter? 

[hardrhymer76]

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@nawsetleigh wrote:

If eBay told me that I would be protected even if he disputed with his cc, do you think that that is a lie they told me? I don’t know why they would tell me that if I wasn’t gonna be protected from it. They could have said I don’t know or something. 

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Unfortunately, eBay CSRs are legendary for telling you what you want to hear, whether it's true or untrue, or whether they know or don't know.

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@nawsetleigh wrote:
What I guess I don’t understand about disputing with cc is wouldn’t anyone dispute any sort of transaction that they just decided, oh. I don’t feel like actually paying that. So if I dispute it, I’ll get my money back. That’s pretty much what he would be doing. Shouldn’t his cc company actually look into the matter? 

It's not such a casual or straightforward proposition. When a chargeback is filed, the bank or CC company starts an investigation. They will look at various details of the transaction including the customer's written dispute, electronic receipts, carrier tracking, etc. eBay cooperates with these investigations and will provide them with the data they have, plus I believe the seller has an opportunity for rebuttal, uploading of documents, etc. Whatever the financial institution decides is final. It doesn't always go the customer's way, and if they have a history of false and/or excessive claims they'll eventually find their card cancelled/account closed. 

[nawsetleigh]

You would think that eBay would be more careful of what they say. Seems like a lawsuit waiting to happen. Not that I would go towards that route. 

Thanks again for your response and advice.