Buyer Violated MBG - E-Bay still sides with Buyer? Why?

[katzrul15]

Buyer buys.

Buyer evidently changes mind - told e-Bay found cheaper. 

Parcel shipped same day as order/payment.  Arrives in 2 days, Buyer refuses parcel at Delivery.

Buyer wants full refund.  MBG says it is voided by Buyer refusal of parcel at delivery.

We reached out to e-Bay CS on social media.  They indicate we are to refund and it does not void MBG. 

Why not?  It is in written policy it does. 

Why do we owe Buyer a full refund??

[mam98031]

The OP has said a few times that UPS has told them there will be a fee.  They haven't said how much that fee is, but just that there will be one.

[jasmen@ebay]

@my-cottage-books-and-antiques It's not as clear as that, everything is case by case and should be handled by the proper team if there's ever a situation where it's refused. Everything is taken into consideration as well as the communication between the buyer and seller which can also change things. I appreciate any feedback on the process and I'm happy to pass it along! 

[fern*wood]

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@mam98031 wrote:

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@fern*wood wrote:

I think this isn't a situation where anyone is wrong in their advice as much as it is a situation that just isn't clearly addressed anywhere.   I also feel in this particular case that ebay reps have given wrong and/or inconsistent information to both parties involved.   I still feel the OP shouldn't be out any of the shipping money due to their return policy, but due to fear of a bigger hit and no faith in ebay's inconsistent advice/decisions, they are out that money.

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I would disagree.  I think both the buyer and the seller got bad advice.

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I said I thought ebay reps gave bad information to both parties.

[albertabrightalberta]

jasmen@ebay 

What if the OP, @katzrul15 were to send you a PM?  Can ebay mods get PMs? 

[fern*wood]

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@mam98031 wrote:

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BTW Ebay did not force the refund on the claim that was opened by the buyer, the seller processed it and refunded them in full even though that means the seller eats a pretty good amount of money.  And since Ebay did not close the claim, there is no appeal path for the seller.

I have always been told that to appeal a claim / case, it has to have been closed and processed by Ebay.

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I completely forgot about that.  So now the OP has no way to recoup their shipping costs through the normal appeal process.  Of course, the process seemed to be mucked up in this one all along anyway. 

[mam98031]

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@my-cottage-books-and-antiques wrote:

jasmen@ebay 

And just to be clear:

I have a 30 day free return shipping policy. I send package via USPS Priority Mail (there is no charge to me or the buyer if buyer refuses delivery and marks package "return to sender"). Package arrives, no postage due. Buyer refuses delivery and opens request for refund because buyer changed his mind ---a perfectly valid reason under my return policy. 

Returned package arrives, it is in fine condition. I have my item back at no cost to me. Buyer no longer has item and wants refund. 

Here is what you are telling me: I can refuse the refund and ebay will back me up. I get to keep the buyer's money AND my item.

Is that correct?

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Let me ask you this.

If a buyer refused the package for any reason other than postage due or obvious damage to the package, that would void the protection they have under the MBG for this transaction.

Why do you feel it does or it should REVIVE the buyer's protection if they file a claim within your stated return policy?  They already lost the privilege, so why does it get reinstated for this transaction because they filed a claim?

It should also be noted that refusal of a package does NOT constitute a return of the package for the purposes of a claim.  The two are NOT the same.

Again for you it may be at no cost, but for the OP and for many other sellers the refusal of a package is NOT at no cost for the returning item.

[jasmen@ebay]

@my-cottage-books-and-antiques If a package is refused and eBay closed the case out in your favor you don't have to do anything else. Keep in mind it may be best to refund the item cost minus the shipping because the buyer could still go to their funding source for help too. 

[jasmen@ebay]

@mam98031 I'm not sure why that information was given either, it may be best for the OP to reach out to eBay for Business so they can take a deep dive to help and make sure there's proper coaching in place for the agent, if wrong info was given. 

[jasmen@ebay]

@albertabrightalberta We can't take PM's here but @katzrul15 if you're on social media you can send a PM on Facebook or Twitter and our team will get back to you ASAP! 

[mam98031 · Accepted solution]

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jasmen@ebay wrote:

@mam98031 I'm not sure why that information was given either, it may be best for the OP to reach out to eBay for Business so they can take a deep dive to help and make sure there's proper coaching in place for the agent, if wrong info was given. 

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jasmen@ebay 

I believe that is where they were told to process the request for return.

So to be really clear here, in the situation of the OP of this thread, not any of the posters.  But specifically the OP of this thread.

The refusal of the package for the reason they didn't want it, the buyer voids their buyer protection under the MBG.  And because of that the seller is not required by Ebay to refund the buyer, however it really is the right thing to do less any costs the seller can't recover.  Is this correct?

As to the Buyer's Remorse request, the seller should have been able to contact Ebay and have the request closed out because the buyer had lost their protection under the MBG on this transaction due to the refusal of the package.  Is this also correct?

I'm just trying to be crystal clear here.  This is the advice I gave since the beginning of this thread and I just want to back sure I'm either right or I'm wrong and need to adjust my thinking as well as advice.

[mam98031]

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jasmen@ebay wrote:

@albertabrightalberta We can't take PM's here but @katzrul15 if you're on social media you can send a PM on Facebook or Twitter and our team will get back to you ASAP! 

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That's what got them in this mess in the first place.  Bad info and incomplete info give from Social Media.

[my-cottage-books-and-antiques]

jasmen@ebay  and everyone else on this thread

 According to Jasmen, my statements were wrong and I apologize to all for adding to an already confused situation. As for me, I am now even more confused by Jasmen's comments and the fact that she has not pointed to anything in ebay's written policy to back them up. This is information from ebay's buyer facing returns policy page, specifically addressing remorse (NOT MBG) returns:

"Decline your return request – Sellers can only decline your return request if you changed your mind about an item and they stated in the listing that they don't accept returns, or if you missed the seller's deadline to start a return."

Source: https://www.ebay.com/help/buying/returns-refunds/return-item-refund?id=4041

To me , fool that I am, that seems quite clear. I see nothing that adds "or if you refuse delivery." 

But, according to Jasmen, that is an additional reason for a seller to decline a return request if you changed your mind. 

So, Jasmen, needless to say my feedback would be : ebay needs to add "or if you refuse delivery" so that buyers understand that refusing delivery will allow the seller to decline their request. Also, this should be spelled out on the seller facing pages as well. The seller can decline a return request if the buyer refuses delivery for a remorse return. 

Of course, judging by your "case by case" statements, I'm guessing if a seller actively encourages a buyer to refuse delivery but then , after the item is returned to the seller, the seller refuses to refund, ebay might require the seller to refund. 

So, it seems the rule really is:

A buyer cannot refuse delivery and get a refund in a remorse case, except in those cases when ebay decides he can. Does that pretty much sum it up, jasmen@ebay ?

[katzrul15]

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@mam98031 wrote:

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jasmen@ebay wrote:

@mam98031 I'm not sure why that information was given either, it may be best for the OP to reach out to eBay for Business so they can take a deep dive to help and make sure there's proper coaching in place for the agent, if wrong info was given. 

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jasmen@ebay 

I believe that is where they were told to process the request for return.

So to be really clear here, in the situation of the OP of this thread, not any of the posters.  But specifically the OP of this thread.

The refusal of the package for the reason they didn't want it, the buyer voids their buyer protection under the MBG.  And because of that the seller is not required by Ebay to refund the buyer, however it really is the right thing to do less any costs the seller can't recover.  Is this correct?

As to the Buyer's Remorse request, the seller should have been able to contact Ebay and have the request closed out because the buyer had lost their protection under the MBG on this transaction due to the refusal of the package.  Is this also correct?

I'm just trying to be crystal clear here.  This is the advice I gave since the beginning of this thread and I just want to back sure I'm either right or I'm wrong and need to adjust my thinking as well as advice.

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I too would like the answer as I have concerns about the replies.

From the MBG page for e-Bay:

Coverage, eligibility requirements, and exclusions

eBay Money Back Guarantee applies when:

• The buyer doesn't receive an item
• The item received by the buyer doesn't match the listing, for example:
  • The seller sent the wrong item, or
  • The item arrives broken, damaged, or faulty

This says nothing about the MBG applying to a "refused" item.

How best to lend clarity to this?  Even in writing for e-Bay, it is conflicting.  All of this is tied to the buyer reporting that an item has not arrived (INR) - not a "return".  A return does not evoke the MBG, unless the Seller violates their stated Return policy.  Which in my case is 30 days, Buyer pays - so no violation of return policy to get to the MBG. 

The "MBG" is set up for an INR or a SNAD, but not in the "return" process unless the Seller violates their return policy per e-Bay stated/written policies.

I too want to reach the same conclusion as outlined on this thread.  But I also want to be able to "quote" it if this ever comes up again.  jasmen@ebay  - can you please point us to where in the written e-Bay policies it states it applies to an item that is "refused" at delivery and that evokes the MBG in the return process (not an INR or a SNAD)?

Further - I know you stated UP thread, it is treated on a case by case basis.  Can you expound on that?  Why would that be?  Does refusal to pick up a parcel at the post office after a lengthy period and the parcel routed back to the PO count as a "refused" parcel, or does the tracking need to say that?  i.e.  What constitutes a "refused" parcel by e-Bay and is that outlined anywhere?

Thank you in advance.  Unfortunately, with today's post (which are great btw) - I am more confused than before and would really like to be able to cite the actual written policies where this applies to a "refused" parcel and a "return" is what is applicable, not an INR.  

[jasmen@ebay]

Hey @mam98031  

Yes, this is correct for both questions! 

[mam98031]

@katzrul15 

You just didn't look in the right place on the MBG.

Exclusions and special coverage when the buyer doesn't receive an item

This has been posted on the thread earlier.  It clearly says the buyer is not covered.

Clarity is always best.  Read my post 145.  I summarize it and have asked Jasmen to verify or correct my post.