Buyer Using Freight Forwarder Filed a SNAD

[lovethehype]

Hello

I just recently sold a computer part earlier this month through eBay. The payment was received but I noticed that the address was a freight forwarder in Delaware. The item was shipped and successfully delivered

However, two days ago the buyer filed a SNAD case claiming the box was empty. I went ahead and contacted the freight forwarder directly and they have responded back to me, confirming that this package was indeed forwarded to the buyer. 

From my understanding, ebay's MBG is voided if they use a forwarder. However, I know it's typically hard to prove that a buyer used a forwarder. However, since I have written proof (plus pictures of the parcel from the company), do I have any ground to stand on? Furthermore, what should I do about the return?

[pikabo-icu]

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@ekmadonna wrote:

I just shipped a $120 framed print to a customer in Ireland using POLAR EXPRESS about 3-4 weeks ago. Never shipped to that Freight Forwarder before and I have seen all the scam notices at that address on Google. My item and customer didn't give me much alarm about being scammed. It was a Religious Print but I always do worry about possible damage not on my part but on the reshipper. I still have not gotten a Positive Feed Back on the sale but this guy does not seem to leave any for anyone. So, as you all know I still have no relief that this is a successful transaction. Not until I get confirmation he received it undamaged.

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Oh I feel your anxiety..

It sounds like it's been long enough that you're safe.. **fingers crossed**

I shipped a dress $550. through a reshipper back before all this debate and it all went well.

I did receive FB so whew.. It's been long enough now that it couldn't be an issue but it put my mind at ease when they left the FB.

I do not see how eBay can violate this policy- the reshipper often opens & repacks the items, they put a new address label on them. We have zero control over how they handle it, what type of packing for protection they do and no control over the address label they attach to forward,

If there is no protection on this- the protection they clearly say we have in their policy, then this gives sellers 100% of the risk. 

If a INAD case is to be made, it should be from the forwarder PRIOR to sending on to the buyer. Claims of counterfeit etc.. 

This makes me uneasy and if eBay has an unwritten policy for this, they need to update the policy and put it in writing! 

Good Luck on your recent shipment!!  I hope it's all good in the end..

[tdumonde2014]

With?

[nickelsanddimes2015]

Contact ebay for business on Facebook. Send them a message instead of all the mixed opinions on here. Don't deny or accept anything until you speak with them.

[a_c_green]

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@wasuonl15 wrote:

I absolutely agree🙂

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@wasuonl15 : With what, exactly?

[monster-deals]

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@lovethehype wrote:

If this isn't enough proof, then I don't know what is. 

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ebay believes zero proof and disbelieves overwhelming proof every day. It is just the nuts and bolts of today's ebay.

You get overseas call center help...forget it. You get a person stateside...your chances improve greatly but that isn't saying much.  I sure wouldn't bet on ebay taking your side on anything since you are a seller.

[Anonymous]

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@lovethehype wrote:

However, two days ago the buyer filed a SNAD case claiming the box was empty.

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Did the FF warehouse manager provide the tracking number for the international delivery? That would be great proof. I'd  try to beef up the evidence by messaging the buyer.

Dear Buyer,

I'm concerned to hear that your package arrived empty. The freight forwarder that you used confirmed that the package was not empty and weighed (lbs/oz) when they forwarded it on to your address. Have you checked with your local post in (country) to see if you can file a claim with them for stolen package contents?

Seller

See if the buyer responds - if they confirm that they used a freight forwarder or that it was delivered by foreign post then that's slam dunk proof eBay will look at.

[eleanor*rigby]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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Did the FF warehouse manager provide the tracking number for the international delivery? That would be great proof. 

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You know, your post leads me to what might be a useful point. I would think these freight forwarding companies across the country would be bending over backward to assist sellers in identifying what has really happened with these packages. They're getting a terrible reputation--across the internet, anyway--for being scam artists in all kinds of scenarios that they probably have nothing to do with--after all, it's their customers who seem to be doing the scamming. You'd think they'd be interested in helping eBay sellers (and others) just to set the record straight.

[pikabo-icu]

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@eleanor*rigby wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

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Did the FF warehouse manager provide the tracking number for the international delivery? That would be great proof. 

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You know, your post leads me to what might be a useful point. I would think these freight forwarding companies across the country would be bending over backward to assist sellers in identifying what has really happened with these packages. They're getting a terrible reputation--across the internet, anyway--for being scam artists in all kinds of scenarios that they probably have nothing to do with--after all, it's their customers who seem to be doing the scamming. You'd think they'd be interested in helping eBay sellers (and others) just to set the record straight.

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I agree..

In the OP's case they did get a statement from the reshipper that the item left them and was delivered to the buyer.

Since this was an empty box INAD I would think that would be of significant help. 

I'm not gonna give up on getting an eBay blue to give us some clarification on this..

I will ping each day until they do.. 

[lovethehype]

No they didn't provide an international tracking number and I don't know if they can but the shipping manager literally told me that the item was shipped to him. 

[katzrul15]

@lovethehype 

This is the issue we had - they would email me that they indeed did forward a combined parcel, but would not give me the tracking without a copy of a police report/police involvement, that we were unable to obtain from LA County.  Ultimately, did not need it as the return timed out with the label generated and was closed in our favor.  

[brittanie@ebay]

@eleanor*rigby & @pikabo-icu - Wow this quite a long thread. I don't really want to get into all the weeds here, because it's pretty straight forward. Our policy is stated on the page @pikabo-icu originally shared here. 

Here's the specifics of the policy for this situation:

 

In general, what we'll need is proof that the item was shipped to another location by the buyer. That can come in many forms and since the seller has proof from the carrier it was forwarded, that should be what we need unless something else is going on in the case that we don't know about from the details shared here. For example, if a seller accepts the return before contacting us to provide proof of forwarding, we can't overturn that decision. 

@lovethehype Your best bet is to contact customer service to see what your options are on the case and provide all the info you have. 

[eleanor*rigby]

Thanks for your explanation, brittanie@ebay. I think that jives with Trinton's explanation from a year ago. Essentially, forwarding a parcel nullifies buyer protection, but sellers must be able to prove the parcel was indeed forwarded. 

I'm just going to highlight one of your statements for the OP, since I believe there were posts recommending the opposite advice:

" . . .  if a seller accepts the return before contacting us to provide proof of forwarding, we can't overturn that decision."

@lovethehype 

[katzrul15]

Thanks for that - someone on here was kind enough with mine to tell me to report the buyer to e-Bay, outline the freight-forwarder issue(s) and then message on Facebook and that is what I did.  Really wish this could be "pinned" on this board as this comes up every so often and obviously, this element is KEY to resolution for a Seller.

[pikabo-icu]

brittanie@ebay 

Thank you for that..

One clarification; having the item delivered to the address of a freight forwarding company isn't proof enough?

Will there be some text added to the MBG policy stating we have to have proof it was forwarded?

Because as it reads, it says if they used a freight forwarder and I would think having it confirmed delivered there is proof of that.

Will we need a statement from the forwarder it was indeed forwarded to the buyer?

Thank you. 

[eleanor*rigby]

I've "permalinked" Brittanie's Message #56 and bookmarked it in a folder I keep for "eBay Policies." That way, I have handy access to it when someone posts a thread on the topic--just like I did for the post with Trinton's response(s). 

Might work for you, too? 

I don't really think the policy itself is the problem. I think there are other issues, though:

1. Sellers who don't read the details of the Money Back Guarantee before starting to sell, or after selling, or even when they find themselves in this kind of bind.
2. Members who post misinformation about the policy--certainly not intentionally, but incorrect nonetheless.
3. Inconsistency with eBay's adjudication of the outcome of disputes when a freight forwarder is involved in the transaction.
4. eBay stating the policy in the MBG, but not expounding it through a seller-oriented help page.*

I do think it would be helpful, as another poster mentioned, if there were an eBay help page explaining eBay's expectations of sellers who find themselves involved in an INR or INAD with items sent to a freight forwarder. As it stands right now, the only reference I'm aware of is the policy reproduced here--buried somewhere inside the fine print of the MBG. What would it hurt to have that same information--with a more detailed explanation--on a seller help page.

*Apologies if it does appear somewhere. I've never run across it, but would be pleased if someone could provide a link to a reference to freight forwarders on a seller page.