Buyer Using Freight Forwarder Filed a SNAD

[lovethehype]

Hello

I just recently sold a computer part earlier this month through eBay. The payment was received but I noticed that the address was a freight forwarder in Delaware. The item was shipped and successfully delivered

However, two days ago the buyer filed a SNAD case claiming the box was empty. I went ahead and contacted the freight forwarder directly and they have responded back to me, confirming that this package was indeed forwarded to the buyer. 

From my understanding, ebay's MBG is voided if they use a forwarder. However, I know it's typically hard to prove that a buyer used a forwarder. However, since I have written proof (plus pictures of the parcel from the company), do I have any ground to stand on? Furthermore, what should I do about the return?

[pikabo-icu]

@eleanor*rigby 

Thanks for pinging them..

I pinged a couple too.

If they are not going to stand by their own policy on this I believe it should at least be changed in writing so we know we wont be covered. 

[lovethehype]

I understand but per eBay policy, buyers are in violation of returns if they use a third party fowarder, even if they claim it's not as described. 

[a_c_green]

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@eleanor*rigby wrote:

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I think it's time to request an update of eBay's interpretation of their policy regarding seller protection for items that have been forwarded to another address. 

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Aaaargh...  😉 At least let me buy some more gin first...

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@eleanor*rigby  wrote:

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brian@ebay, brittanie@ebay, tyler@ebay 

Could we get an explanation of eBay's current position of under what circumstances a forwarded package does and does not qualify for buyer protection and what sellers need to do when confronted with an INR or a INAD for a forwarded package, including whether and how proof of forwarding comes into play?

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If anybody needs me I'll be under my desk... 😜

[pjcdn2005]

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@stainlessenginecovers wrote:

If the OP accepts the return and provides a label; that label is from the Forwarder to himself. The OP does not have to provide a shipping label from XYZ country to himself- correct?

Doesn't the buyer have to provide their own shipping back to the forwarder? 

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Yes, the buyer has to provide their own shipping to the forwarder. However, there have been a number of posts about similar situations when the item was sent back from another part of the US, not from the buyer's home country and not from the same state as the forwarder so it seems that they have 'friends' in the US helping them.  In many of those cases the item received back was not what was sent.

[duffy4444]

   Here we go again... I'm feeling like a record stuck in an untenable, screeching track.

   I looked thru all the responses in this post, and my head is about ready to explode. But I'll try once again...

   Assuming that the "computer part" is not a cheap item that the OP is prepared to lose, in addition possibly to his money on a refund forced upon him:

   Never, Ever ship a higher-value item, even to a freight forwarder, until Ebay gets off its butt and provides some common sense seller protections (with teeth in them) against these types of problems. The problem is made worse with shipping, where all sorts of scams, including postal worker theft not attributable to the buyer, are simply exploding.

   Ebay must transfer some of the burden, risk, and responsibility onto the buyer (mandatory Ebay insurance when over a certain amount, or freight forwarding or international delivery?) Instead, the seller gets hammered with all sorts of hoops to go thru like detailed in this post, and then all too often still end up losing the item AND their money.

   This is not sustainable. Ebay must act to revamp Seller Protections with an emphasis on common sense as a starting point.

   The best advice I can give right now is to sell higher-value items with Local Pickup, where shipping problems and related scams are taken completely out of the equation. And one can also insist on cash, as in the use of CraigsList. Yes, it will take longer to sell the item, but the incredible frustration and burden put on sellers to jump thru a gauntlet of unnecessary hoops, just to eventually lose their item and in many cases their money as well, is removed.

   I'm really , really getting tired of seeing heart-breaking posts like this, which exposes unnecessary and avoidable seller abuse.

Cheers, Duffy

[lovethehype]

I absolutely agree. I've been able to avoid any significant issues thus far but all it takes is one bad experience. I'm done with eBay going forward. I've already canceled my store subscription.  

[katzrul15]

@ittybitnot

We just prevailed in one of these a short while a go thanks to what ittybitnot outlines here.

We reported the buyer first for abuse of the Inad, etc and stated they used a freight forwarder and we had Signature Confirmation of delivery.  Forget who said do that first, but we did.

We spoke with the freight forwarder and obtained the date the parcel was sent onto to the Buyer.  Freight forwarder verified it was sent onto Buyer (grouped) with 2 other items.

Armed with the above, we posted on facebook as suggested.  We were told we would be protected under TRS as we shipped to the address we were instructed to. 

We accepted the return.  Label sent to Buyer was a first class label originating from freight-forwarder addy in LA County, CA.

Item was never returned to us.  Closed due to no return.  Tried getting a police report in LA County.  Not possible.  

Interested in what Brian has to advise as we were told the freight-forwarder element did not erode TRS protection.  We did report the Buyer first thing and set the stage though that this was a freight-forwarder.

Someone posted on here recently on a new thread stating they did not prevail, even though CS told them they would.

[duffy4444]

  Greetings, lovethehype,

   The solution is not to jump ship, but instead be very wise in how to sidestep the scams and other problems going on, until Ebay does something besides put 90% of the burden on the seller. Just being forced to go thru all the stupid hoops should be enough to get Ebay to act responsibly to even the playing field and attack the current epidemic of scams head-on.

   But don't jump ship - it's an overreaction when wisdom can be used - especially in shipping. That was my point, in addition to blowing off some steam - again...

Cheers, Duffy

[monster-deals]

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@eleanor*rigby wrote:

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@lovethehype wrote:

Hello

I just recently sold a computer part earlier this month through eBay. The payment was received but I noticed that the address was a freight forwarder in Delaware. The item was shipped and successfully delivered

However, two days ago the buyer filed a SNAD case claiming the box was empty. I went ahead and contacted the freight forwarder directly and they have responded back to me, confirming that this package was indeed forwarded to the buyer. 

From my understanding, ebay's MBG is voided if they use a forwarder. However, I know it's typically hard to prove that a buyer used a forwarder. However, since I have written proof (plus pictures of the parcel from the company), do I have any ground to stand on? Furthermore, what should I do about the return?

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Supposedly, a statement from the freight forwarder that the parcel was indeed forwarded to the buyer should be similar to the kind of proof eBay might be looking for in a case like yours. (Notice how I hedged my response there? That was not a coincidence . . . )

From a discussion thread in February of 2020. Upon being asked what kind of proof of forwarding eBay might accept, a Community Team Member responded:

The thread is rather lengthy, but, IMO, it might be worth your while to read it. When you get to the end, you'll understand why I used such non-committal language in my first statement.

Freight forwarders 

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The problematic phrase is "most likely"

You will notice that it was never stated as "yes, we will accept this evidence" which in ebay speak means "no we most likely won't accept that as evidence but we won't say that because people will complain and we don't wish to discuss it further"

[ekmadonna]

"You have to provide "proof" the the item was actually forwarded. Whether or not eBay will accept your proof is the present issue. Truly, I hope this works out for you" Why would the Seller HAVE TO PROVIDE PROOF a Freight Forwarder actually forwarded the item? The Freight Forwarder was HIRED BY THE BUYER. Everyone knows who all these Freight Forwarders are and their Addresses out of Delaware, Florida, New Jersey, Cali and Oregon. I was always under the impression that anytime an item is reshipped through a 3rd Party that voids ANY Money Back Guaranteed Protection.

[ekmadonna]

And if they change their stance and policy I personally will be CANCELING every single order that goes through a Freight Forwarder for FAULTY ADDRESS.

[pikabo-icu]

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@ekmadonna wrote:

And if they change their stance and policy I personally will be CANCELING every single order that goes through a Freight Forwarder for FAULTY ADDRESS.

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@ekmadonna 

Me too!

I've seen a blue posting today, I hope they're researching this for a solid answer. I'm not gonna just let this go..

I will ping again tomorrow- 

We NEED clarification.. 

[lovethehype]

I have written confirmation from their warehouse manager, including photos of the parcel and the scan in the system that match the name of the buyer as well as the tracking info listed in the eBay listing. If this isn't enough proof, then I don't know what is. 

[ekmadonna]

I just shipped a $120 framed print to a customer in Ireland using POLAR EXPRESS about 3-4 weeks ago. Never shipped to that Freight Forwarder before and I have seen all the scam notices at that address on Google. My item and customer didn't give me much alarm about being scammed. It was a Religious Print but I always do worry about possible damage not on my part but on the reshipper. I still have not gotten a Positive Feed Back on the sale but this guy does not seem to leave any for anyone. So, as you all know I still have no relief that this is a successful transaction. Not until I get confirmation he received it undamaged.

[wasuonl15]

I absolutely agree🙂