Another Scamming Buyer - Grrrr - They Know How to Work The System

[twk]

I have been on ebay, as a buyer and seller since 1998 and the scammers are getting ridiculous.  I sell antiques and vintage items and take great pains to describe and lots of pictures.

Today I had a case opened against me for a NAD when it is exactly what the seller bought.  It was a teapot, dimensions given, lots of pictures and now seller claims it - get this - only  holds 3 cups!  This is a good size English teapot and holds much more than 3 cups.  Also, the buyer has had since Saturday and just today opens the claim against me.

Fortunately, I had to cancel my first postage label on this because I forgot to add the insurance for $100 and had to do a second one.  I also let the buyer know why I canceled the first label so she KNEW it was fully INSURED.  She claims NO damage to item, just allegedly wrong item but provides no pictures, just verbage on her claim.

I have already talked to Ebay returns on this and the young man tried to close the claim in my favor but it is too soon.  He guarantees I will not lose out as I do not take returns AND it is what she bought.

How should I handle?  Yeah I know I will be advised to just take it back, but I have had far too many cases in the last two years where I eat the shipping and return costs for buyer's remorse....especially since they seem to have learned that to get ALL their money back an item not as described is the way to go.

Hubby and I have been on ebay for a long time and are small time sellers and not equipped for returns due to buyer remorse etc.  In the past we have tried to accommodate but buyers are really misusing the system.  If they just want to return they know they will not get original shipping back and will have to pay for return themselves, BUT if they claim NASD they get it all back.

With increases In shipping this is getting way out of line.

[little.font.lord.leroy]

---

@twk wrote:

I just noticed that even the replacement place, while it also gives the height, and they give A number of cups for the pot, they do  not state just what the oz. of those cups are either.

---

I believe they mean cup as a unit of measure, not how many cups in that particular set it will fill; Replacements.com is a US site. in the US a cup = 8 oz (as printed on the side of your pyrex measuring cup). In the UK an imperial cup is 7 oz, I believe.

[little.font.lord.leroy]

---

@moo*cow*corner wrote:

@twk

I sent you a PM with more info about my security labels.

---

would it be too much to ask if you could forward that info to me as well? Thanks.

[moo*cow*corner]

---

@little.font.lord.leroy wrote:

---

@moo*cow*corner wrote:

@a_c_green 

The biggest sellers in the category don't describe volumes. I suppose a seller could, but it has no bearing on a case anymore. I've been known to do it, but usually only for glassware tumblers and the like.

---

When buying tumblers I don't always rely on volume, which can usually be looked up at replacements. But if the dealer doesn't list the size in inches (height, distance across) I pass, no matter how good a deal it is. I am not about to write and ask a seller if they happen to own a ruler and maybe know a 5th grader who can teach them how to use it. And the audacity to think, "if they need to know the size they can always ask". Who buys anything without knowing the size?

Wow. Nice post! To clarify, I was referring to a teapot, not tumblers. If there's only one size teapot available in a pattern, if someone wants one, capacity doesn't matter much...it's all there is. It's a specialty or companion item. Linear measurements get disclosed. General height and diameter (distance across).  If they want a capacity estimate, they can ask. 

Tumblers do get measured when I list them. Height and diameter (distance across). Sometimes with volume, sometimes not. Commercial grade barware tumblers are far more likely to get a volume listed than general household glassware, for obvious reasons.

A seller who considers it a  hassle  to measure their goods,  and can't be bothered to hold a ruler up to it when they photograph it on the kitchen floor with an cell-phone pointed down,  is likely to forget to mention the chips and then will throw it into a cereal box with paper toweling for a cushion to ship and then call me all sorts of names after I report that the item arrived damaged. I really don't have the time for that kind of hassle, either.

I consider it a blessing when sellers don't list sizes -it tells a defensive shopper far more than it doesn't.

You're just full of good tidings and encouraging words aren't you? Who said anything about hassle? I've been selling P&G for a long time. I appreciate your overall sentiments, but I know what I'm doing. Thanks!

---

[myjunqueyourtreasure]

---

@a_c_green wrote:

---

@yuzuha wrote:

---

@the*dog*ate*my*tablecloth wrote:

I’m a tea drinker AND English and I would have thought cups meant 8 ounces. so you’re wrong about “any Tea Drinker”

Its irrelevant anyway if you didn’t list the volume. 

---

Same.  (Well, not the English part, the tea drinker part.)  I drink tea every day; I just checked the tea cups I have and they are all 8 oz ones.  I thought that was the standard size for tea cups as all of the cups/mugs we sell at work are that size or larger save for the espresso cups and the cappuccino mugs.

---

Fortunately it's teatime here, I am British, and I have just completed the following Scientific Measurements:

Observations here were made using Tetley black tea. Normally I would be using Earl Grey, but we're out of that, so I was forced to tettle instead. 

The Noritake Whitebrook cup on the left measures 6 ounces for a normal fill. The Mikasa Prelude in the center holds 8 ounces, as does the Woodhill on the right. (Crumpet statistics are for weight, not volume.) Thus, for example, a 36-ounce pot could provide 6 Noritake cups, but only 4½ of the others. A larger pot will have an even bigger discrepancy, depending on the buyer's choice of tea set, and you would have no way of knowing what they would be using. So just give the volume of the pot (along with its external dimensions), and everyone benefits. 

Now please excuse me because my crumpet is going cold.

---

I'd kill for a real crumpet. Haven't been able to get them here (US) and unfortunately my home made ones aren't quite the same.

[southern*sweet*tea]

**general reply**

Any container that holds a liquid should have its capacity listed in ounces - ex: pot holds 16 ounces.

That said, tea should always be measured in gallons, as the only tea is ICED sweet tea

[myjunqueyourtreasure]

---

@little.font.lord.leroy wrote:

---

@a_c_green wrote:

---

---

Fortunately it's teatime here, I am British, and I have just completed the following Scientific Measurements:

---

Do you put marmalade and Marmite on your crumpet? Do Brits really do that? Is marmalade the only thing that makes a smear of Marmite palatable?  No, I'm not going to try it !

---

Marmite sucks. Vegemite is the real deal

[lacemaker3]

---

@a_c_green wrote:

---

@yuzuha wrote:

---

@the*dog*ate*my*tablecloth wrote:

I’m a tea drinker AND English and I would have thought cups meant 8 ounces. so you’re wrong about “any Tea Drinker”

Its irrelevant anyway if you didn’t list the volume. 

---

Same.  (Well, not the English part, the tea drinker part.)  I drink tea every day; I just checked the tea cups I have and they are all 8 oz ones.  I thought that was the standard size for tea cups as all of the cups/mugs we sell at work are that size or larger save for the espresso cups and the cappuccino mugs.

---

Fortunately it's teatime here, I am British, and I have just completed the following Scientific Measurements:

Observations here were made using Tetley black tea. Normally I would be using Earl Grey, but we're out of that, so I was forced to tettle instead. 

The Noritake Whitebrook cup on the left measures 6 ounces for a normal fill. The Mikasa Prelude in the center holds 8 ounces, as does the Woodhill on the right. (Crumpet statistics are for weight, not volume.) Thus, for example, a 36-ounce pot could provide 6 Noritake cups, but only 4½ of the others. A larger pot will have an even bigger discrepancy, depending on the buyer's choice of tea set, and you would have no way of knowing what they would be using. So just give the volume of the pot (along with its external dimensions), and everyone benefits. 

Now please excuse me because my crumpet is going cold.

---

Owning my kudo, thank you very much for doing the scientific comparison, and I hope you enjoyed your crumpet. (Unfortunately, crumpets are very hard to find here in the US.)

However, please excuse me for asking for clarification: what size ounces did you use?

The size of a cup varies in different countries, and the size of an ounce varies as well. The situation with cups is even more confusing than ounces, I think.

https://www.thecalculatorsite.com/cooking/ounces-ml.php

How many ml in an ounce?

• 1 US fluid ounce = 29.5735 mL
• 1 UK fluid ounce = 28.4131 mL

https://www.thecalculatorsite.com/cooking/cups-ml.php... The US cup measures 236.59 mL. In comparison, the old imperial UK cup (most commonly referenced in pre-1970s recipes) measures 284.13 mL. The metric cup, referenced in Commonwealth countries and modern UK recipes, measures 250 mL.  ...

---

For consistency, you have to use litres (or millilitres), because this volume measurement never changes. One ml = one cubic centimetre,  anywhere you are. So one litre = 10 cm x 10 cm x 10 cm, or a cube 10 cm per side. (Or, approximately 4 inches per side.)

There are 8 US ounces in a US cup (8 * 29.573 = 236.584).  For the rest, I dunno. When I'm not in the USA, I just use ml instead.

[castlemagicmemories]

There was a great post by a seller of vintage and antique items; he has sold here for twenty years, with no issues.  He stated he thoroughly and accurately describes everything, so there are no buyer surprises, and provides clear pictures; he has never had an issue.

[moo*cow*corner]

---

@southern*sweet*tea wrote:

**general reply**

Any container that holds a liquid should have its capacity listed in ounces - ex: pot holds 16 ounces.

That said, tea should always be measured in gallons, as the only tea is ICED sweet tea

---

If there's only one teapot made in a pattern and a collector wants one, they have to take what they can get. I think that most times, a collector is more interested in having one than worrying about how much it holds. Same for other types of hollowware specialty serving items, like coffee servers, chocolate pots, and cold beverage servers.

Oddly enough, many times, pitchers will have a volume stated. It's not standardized by any means. Of course, sellers are free to put what ever they want in their ads.

There are certainly other companion items where stating volume is of much more importance. Mixing bowls, casseroles, cookware, things like that.

I agree on the sweet tea. It's glorious. Sadly, I can't have it. I usually drink plain unsweetened iced tea, but do occasionally steal a small glass of sweet tea when I can get away with it.

[moo*cow*corner]

Cups can be absolutely crazy. Stemware is even worse.

Another good example--there are long running patterns where just the dinner plates come in 3 or 4 sizes, made in different places over the years. Not only is the diameter measurement critical, but country of manufacture, and the particular maker's marks are important to disclose. Most often, made in USA is the oldest, and most valuable. One particular brand is absolutely nuts to keep it all straight.

[moo*cow*corner]

Thoroughly and accurately describing something isn't going to help a darned bit if a buyer decides they want to return a smaller teapot switched out for the larger, more valuable one and get their money back. There's not much any seller can do to head off a similar situation these days.

[a_c_green]

---

@little.font.lord.leroy wrote:

Do you put marmalade and Marmite on your crumpet? Do Brits really do that?

---

No! No! Professional crumpeteers would never do that. My official explanation for the Wilkin & Sons marmalade in that photo would be that you want to offer guests a choice of spreads with their tea (and toast and whatever else). The reality is that it was sitting on the table left over from breakfast, and I stuck it in the photo to fill in the gap. (It's almost empty, too; must make a note to buy more...)

So, no, I know how to operate a crumpet, and I would not put marmalade on it.

[a_c_green]

---

@myjunqueyourtreasure wrote:
I'd kill for a real crumpet. Haven't been able to get them here (US) and unfortunately my home made ones aren't quite the same.

---

Trader Joe's. 

[a_c_green]

---

@myjunqueyourtreasure wrote:

Marmite sucks. Vegemite is the real deal

---

I'm afraid that's incorrect, but it's a common mistake that will not be held against you.  I have no desire to re-hash the Marmite-Vegemite Wars of 1938 all over again. 

Regarding the issue of Imperial vs. Metric ounces, I do get the difference (same as Imperial vs. Metric gallons, which can really confuse gas mileage estimates if reading a U.S. car magazine vs. a British one), so litre measurement (note metric spelling ) would seem to be a better standard, but... I dunno, I think the U.S. 8-ounces-to-a-cup measurement seems close enough for government work, as we used to say. 

[little.font.lord.leroy]

---

@moo*cow*corner wrote:

---

@little.font.lord.leroy wrote:

---

@moo*cow*corner wrote:

@a_c_green 

The biggest sellers in the category don't describe volumes. I suppose a seller could, but it has no bearing on a case anymore. I've been known to do it, but usually only for glassware tumblers and the like.

---

When buying tumblers I don't always rely on volume, ... . And the audacity to think, "if they need to know the size they can always ask". Who buys anything without knowing the size?

Wow. Nice post! To clarify, I was referring to a teapot, not tumblers. ....

A seller who considers it a  hassle  to measure their goods,  ... I consider it a blessing when sellers don't list sizes -it tells a defensive shopper far more than it doesn't.

You're just full of good tidings and encouraging words aren't you? Who said anything about hassle? I've been selling P&G for a long time. I appreciate your overall sentiments, but I know what I'm doing. Thanks!

---

---

I am sorry if you took my comment personally, I was actually referring to general ideas about measuring goods. Perhaps it looked like I was criticizing you personally, that was not my intention. I too appreciate your comments, all of them, even when I disagree.

Your comment simply triggered a corollary thought; I see now that I shouldn't have quoted you as it had little to do with my comment. I was trying to reply in a general way about certain sellers which one comes across if they shop on eBay enough. They know who they are. I wasn't trying to attack you or your comments, directly or indirectly. I am sorry if I made it seem that way. There was one sentence in that comment I did have issue with (The biggest sellers in the category don't describe volumes); but decided to ignore that specifically, for a more general issue that might be a helpful wake up call for someone who stumbles upon it.

And but, I am sorry to admit I'm really not a person who looks for unique ways to deliver good tidings and joy. Maybe that makes me a meanie? I only try to tell my truth, if that truth has bite -I don't serve it with a spoonful of sugar unless I am talking to a child.

I continue to look forward to your insights, and I hope there are no bad feelings.