Another Scamming Buyer - Grrrr - They Know How to Work The System

[twk]

I have been on ebay, as a buyer and seller since 1998 and the scammers are getting ridiculous.  I sell antiques and vintage items and take great pains to describe and lots of pictures.

Today I had a case opened against me for a NAD when it is exactly what the seller bought.  It was a teapot, dimensions given, lots of pictures and now seller claims it - get this - only  holds 3 cups!  This is a good size English teapot and holds much more than 3 cups.  Also, the buyer has had since Saturday and just today opens the claim against me.

Fortunately, I had to cancel my first postage label on this because I forgot to add the insurance for $100 and had to do a second one.  I also let the buyer know why I canceled the first label so she KNEW it was fully INSURED.  She claims NO damage to item, just allegedly wrong item but provides no pictures, just verbage on her claim.

I have already talked to Ebay returns on this and the young man tried to close the claim in my favor but it is too soon.  He guarantees I will not lose out as I do not take returns AND it is what she bought.

How should I handle?  Yeah I know I will be advised to just take it back, but I have had far too many cases in the last two years where I eat the shipping and return costs for buyer's remorse....especially since they seem to have learned that to get ALL their money back an item not as described is the way to go.

Hubby and I have been on ebay for a long time and are small time sellers and not equipped for returns due to buyer remorse etc.  In the past we have tried to accommodate but buyers are really misusing the system.  If they just want to return they know they will not get original shipping back and will have to pay for return themselves, BUT if they claim NASD they get it all back.

With increases In shipping this is getting way out of line.

[gracieallen01]

I thought that No Returns didn't work for Not As Described cases, and that the type of return couldn't/wouldn't be changed once filed.  Has this changed?

[doubledz-a2z]

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I have already talked to Ebay returns on this and the young man tried to close the claim in my favor but it is too soon.  He guarantees I will not lose out as I do not take returns AND it is what she bought.

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You did what I have been suggesting sellers do when they feel they are in the right.  I am tired of reading advice on the boards that instruct sellers to roll over and return for refund.    Sellers CAN WIN cases if they take the time to call ebay and explain.

[geande_1502]

He guarantees I will not lose out as I do not take returns AND it is what she bought.

___

He lied.

[sharingtheland]

I have already talked to Ebay returns on this and the young man tried to close the claim in my favor but it is too soon.  He guarantees I will not lose out as I do not take returns AND it is what she bought.

Repeating as posted above:   The young man's statement is incorrect.

[18704d]

" He guarantees I will not lose out as I do not take returns AND it is what she bought."

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You're great desire to believe him,

most certainly will get you a deadly "unresolved by seller" defect.

Imo

Lynn

[creekcoyote]

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@twk wrote:

I have been on ebay, as a buyer and seller since 1998 and the scammers are getting ridiculous.  I sell antiques and vintage items and take great pains to describe and lots of pictures.

Today I had a case opened against me for a NAD when it is exactly what the seller bought.  It was a teapot, dimensions given, lots of pictures and now seller claims it - get this - only  holds 3 cups!  This is a good size English teapot and holds much more than 3 cups.  Also, the buyer has had since Saturday and just today opens the claim against me.

Fortunately, I had to cancel my first postage label on this because I forgot to add the insurance for $100 and had to do a second one.  I also let the buyer know why I canceled the first label so she KNEW it was fully INSURED.  She claims NO damage to item, just allegedly wrong item but provides no pictures, just verbage on her claim.

I have already talked to Ebay returns on this and the young man tried to close the claim in my favor but it is too soon.  He guarantees I will not lose out as I do not take returns AND it is what she bought.

How should I handle?  Yeah I know I will be advised to just take it back, but I have had far too many cases in the last two years where I eat the shipping and return costs for buyer's remorse....especially since they seem to have learned that to get ALL their money back an item not as described is the way to go.

Hubby and I have been on ebay for a long time and are small time sellers and not equipped for returns due to buyer remorse etc.  In the past we have tried to accommodate but buyers are really misusing the system.  If they just want to return they know they will not get original shipping back and will have to pay for return themselves, BUT if they claim NASD they get it all back.

With increases In shipping this is getting way out of line.

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Was this the Teapot for 99.99?    I read your listing and unless I am mistaken,  did not see anywhere that you claimed just what the amount of tea, etc. the pot would hold.

Yep, I know that people can return for any reason but since you made no claim about this item in regards to volume, SNAD shouldn't  apply here.  Good luck with this and you have beautiful items.

[18704d]

"I am tired of reading advice on the boards that instruct sellers to roll over and return for refund. Sellers CAN WIN cases if they take the time to call ebay and explain."

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And if you dont' like what the first CSR says, call back several times.

You'll probably get a variety of different "guarantees",

none of which I .. personally .. would risk my account over.

Many of us believe eBay works best,

for sellers willing to accept returns.. even false NAD's.

Lynn

[juststuffisell]

I am with you. I really do dislike the direction returns are headed on eBay. Buyers are flat out abusing the return system. I am pretty confident eBay knows it, but, given they don't have to actually take the loss on the shipping to and from the buyer, there really is not a lot of motivation for them on addressing the issue beyond the administrative side of things.

I will chime in on this situation. Someone posted "Fight the return". If someone else is willing to give you the 100 bucks you are going to lose (as the buyer will keep the item on a forced refund), by all means, fight the return. I'm not prepared to cover your losses, and I don't think a single seller in this community will back your loss if you fight it... so the risk is ALL yours. Could you win? Yes. Will you win? Probably not. The best case scenario I see coming out of fighting it is ebay gives the buyer a complimentary refund and the buyer keeps the item while you keep the money the buyer paid. These DO happen. The more likely scenario will be eBay forces you to refund the buyers money and the buyer will be keeping your merchandise as well. If eBay does decide in your favor - not likely, but it is possible - you will then open up the possibility of a paypal dispute - where expert returners go when eBay fails them. At least in a paypal dispute, the buyer will be required to return the item at their expense, but you will still end up taking the item back and refunding some money.

The absolute last people you want to believe when it comes to a dispute are the eBay account reps. Your initial call you got one opinion. The buyer will call and get another opinion from a entirely different rep. You both will get an opinion that you usually want to hear. A sympathetic ear so to speak. Someone is not going to be happy with the initial decision. When you call again, you will get a completely different rep that will have their own opinion and it is a vicious cycle until the case is closed and once it is closed for good in eBays eyes it is closed.....and usually it is the buyer that gets the absolute last word in on the case - especially the pro returners that know how to work the system. The notice you as a seller will get on the case being closed is that eBay has refunded the buyer and the funding source will be your paypal account.

I believe I covered all of the potential implications of the typical SNAD claim (beyond the strike your account will get for unresolved claims). Someone else might chime in on anything I missed.

My recommendation, and why most sellers make the recommendation, is to take the item back and eat the shipping to/from, report and block the buyer. Unfortunately, most of the alternatives can be pretty expensive for you as a seller; and while eBay does indeed try to protect sellers, they have to balance that with protecting buyers. Even when you can win one on eBay, you still then have to deal with the Paypal problems of a transaction gone wrong.

Cheers

[twk]

That's the one.  Looking on a big replacement site I find that there IS a smaller teapot, but it is not the one I sold.  Wondering if it is a switcheroo deal here.  Get the bigger one and send back the smaller one.  Don't know.  I do know that had I not had this fully insured you can bet it would have arrived "broken" to her and she would want full refund.  I mean it took her what, 5 days to say it was too small?  And she claims to be a big tea drinker so she has an immediate idea of what a pot would hold or not hold.....I do.

[escuintla]

Buyers see their cups with a capacity for 24 oz. 

This is something new to me, now we have to pour water into a cup and show it in a video how it went. 

[doubledz-a2z]

The absolute last people you want to believe when it comes to a dispute are the eBay account reps. Your initial call you got one opinion.

Initially you indicate what your problem relates to then you keep asking for a higher up until you get to the person who actually has authority to make a decision.  They are there you just have to ask for them.     I actually got a policy changed by getting up into the top tier help.   I had a seller win the bid on a $799 photo album  then accuse me of shilling and said he would not pay.  I offered second chance to underbidder and they were thrilled to get it.   The original winning bidder was able to leave negative feedback.  The second chance actual buyer was able to leave positive feedback.  Thus ONE ITEM RESULTED IN TWO FEEDBACKS.   Now when Second Chance offer is accepted the original item number is nullified.    IF YOU THINK YOU ARE RIGHT THEN FIGHT FOR IT.

[twk]

Yes, that is what I did as soon as I saw the return request and reason why.  The young man checked out the listing and the buyers claim and saw nothing indicating reason for return as NASD.  Though he did ask me if I was going to file a claim for it after I told him it was insured with the USPO which was interesting.  I told him there was no way a claim could be made as it was not broken.

  He did take his time, read the listing and her comments and told me I wasn't going to lose any money on this one.  He guaranteed it, but because it was a new claim he, try as he might, couldn't close it right then.  Something about how it would be reviewed and I would be alright.

[sweetpieces4you]

Thanks for sharing your HOW to RIP PEOPLE OFF STORY !! The RIPPERS READ these MESSAGES and learn more and more every day from people like you !! I understand your frustrations but people have to STOP giving the RIPPERS info on how to use and abuse the system !! 

[sharingtheland]

He guaranteed it

Did you get his name?  Did you get a case # for the phone call?  Do you know his title and department?

A CSR can't guarantee anything.

As others have said, and all responses are based on experience, just say, "So sorry you are unhappy; please return for refund."

Pretend that somehow this case gets closed in your favor.  You aren't going to gain anything by forcing the buyer to keep the teapot other than big fat negative feedback and return shipping.  I wouldn't fall on that sword.