eBay's "item not received" deadline is ridiculous

[speed_racer]

Is it my imagination, or are these arbitrary deadlines becoming shorter and shorter? I have an item shipped from China that has an estimated arrival date as late as June 12. Yet eBay removed it from my purchase history more than a week ago. They won't allow you to open an "item not received" case before the final arrival date, so why did they end that option long before that final date? If you're going to impose a hard deadline like that, eBay, then do the same to the seller so they can't give a fake tracking number and say it will arrive in three months or whatever is obviously after the deadline.

Also, how about some transparency? Show us when the deadline is. Don't make us guess and worry that it's going to pass before we know it.

[sunnysouth1]

Hi @mudshark61369 ,

The confusion may be that a buyer can open an eBay case after the 30 days from the estimated delivery date has expired, but the only option given to the buyer is to contact the seller. eBay will not take any action and step in when this happens.

The same applies to estimated delivery dates that are extended dates.

Trinton says "we do not keep a record of payment beyond a certain amount of time." Still, the buyer can open an item not received case but eBay will not help.

From Trinton "this would actually fall under a system limitation anytime the transaction occurred more than 60 days prior to eBay being asked to step in. While the item not received request can be opened, we simply no longer have a record of the payment and thus cannot step in to potentially reverse". 

To my knowledge, this is not a new policy.

[speed_racer]

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@jeannicho22 wrote:

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The deadline is the day after the last estimated arrival date which is disclosed to you before you commit to purchase. 

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No, it is not. Stop spreading misinformation. I have waited as long as a week or two after the last arrival date, sometimes on my initiative, sometimes at the request of the seller if I think they're sincere, and the option to open a case remains available. And again, you linked to eBay's guarantee page and said basically "read it!" but that page doesn't say any of this "day after the last estimated arrival date" that you're pulling out of thin air.

[speed_racer]

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@jeannicho22 wrote:

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@speed_racer wrote:

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@jeannicho22 wrote:

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@speed_racer wrote:

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@dola-4721 wrote:
Stop buying from China. Problem solved

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It is most definitely NOT xenophobic to advise a poster to avoid buying from sources of high problems.  If I advised a poster to avoid sellers who have a high number of negatives, that would make me smart, not negaphobic.  Most sellers are in fact honest and helpful, but there is a very high incidence of problems with many sellers in China.  Additionally, eBay has "special" rules for sellers in China that make it very difficult for a lot of buyers to maneuver.... You seem to have run into ONE of the problems.  You could have avoided this problem by buying from a seller with a more reasonable delivery date.

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What dola-4721 wrote and what you wrote are two different things. You wrote, "If I advised a poster to avoid sellers who have a high number of negatives," whereas she wrote "Stop buying from China." Unless you're implying that all sellers from China are dishonest, the two statements are obviously not synonymous.

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No.... not ALL sellers from China, and they are not held to the same standards as other sellers.  
As I said.... You've just run into one of them.  

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First you wrote that you agreed "Stop buying from China. Problem solved" i.e. avoid all Chinese sellers, is sound advice, then you write you're not agreeing with it. Which is it?

And what is this "not the same standards"? Where is your proof of those allegations? On those occasions I've had problems with items not arriving after a reasonable (4-6 week) estimated arrival date and had to open cases against Chinese sellers, eBay always refunded me as long as the tracking information didn't show delivery, or the sellers refunded me after I contacted them.

[myangelandmyprincess]

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@speed_racer wrote:

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@jeannicho22 wrote:

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@speed_racer wrote:

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@jeannicho22 wrote:

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@speed_racer wrote:

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@dola-4721 wrote:
Stop buying from China. Problem solved

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It is most definitely NOT xenophobic to advise a poster to avoid buying from sources of high problems.  If I advised a poster to avoid sellers who have a high number of negatives, that would make me smart, not negaphobic.  Most sellers are in fact honest and helpful, but there is a very high incidence of problems with many sellers in China.  Additionally, eBay has "special" rules for sellers in China that make it very difficult for a lot of buyers to maneuver.... You seem to have run into ONE of the problems.  You could have avoided this problem by buying from a seller with a more reasonable delivery date.

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What dola-4721 wrote and what you wrote are two different things. You wrote, "If I advised a poster to avoid sellers who have a high number of negatives," whereas she wrote "Stop buying from China." Unless you're implying that all sellers from China are dishonest, the two statements are obviously not synonymous.

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No.... not ALL sellers from China, and they are not held to the same standards as other sellers.  
As I said.... You've just run into one of them.  

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First you wrote that you agreed "Stop buying from China. Problem solved" i.e. avoid all Chinese sellers, is sound advice, then you write you're not agreeing with it. Which is it?

And what is this "not the same standards"? Where is your proof of those allegations? On those occasions I've had problems with items not arriving after a reasonable (4-6 week) estimated arrival date and had to open cases against Chinese sellers, eBay always refunded me as long as the tracking information didn't show delivery, or the sellers refunded me after I contacted them.

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The suggestion of stop buying from china isn’t because by anyone things all chinaberry sellers are bad.   It’s  because there are certain tactics used most often by Chinese sellers more than by others   Delaying shipping beyond 60 days is on eBay of those tactics   They also are commonly  known for sending cheap Junk And hoping to convince buyers they have to pay to ship It back first 

[jeannicho22]

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@speed_racer wrote:

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@jeannicho22 wrote:

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The deadline is the day after the last estimated arrival date which is disclosed to you before you commit to purchase. 

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No, it is not. Stop spreading misinformation. I have waited as long as a week or two after the last arrival date, sometimes on my initiative, sometimes at the request of the seller if I think they're sincere, and the option to open a case remains available. And again, you linked to eBay's guarantee page and said basically "read it!" but that page doesn't say any of this "day after the last estimated arrival date" that you're pulling out of thin air.

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Actually I did mis-speak.  The FIRST day you can open an INR case is the day after the last day of the estimated delivery date.  Look, I know that you want someone else to be responsible because you missed the deadline or someone didn't mark it on your calendar.  But the fact is that the delivery dates were disclosed to YOU before you committed to purchase.  This is your responsibility to keep track of your purchases.  And if at the time of purchase the wait is too long... Don't purchase.

[maflan-41]

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@speed_racer wrote:

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@sunnysouth1 wrote:

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This was in the listing. Did you read it?
eBay Money Back Guarantee:
http://pages.ebay.com/ebay-money-back-guarantee/

eBay expects all members to read the rules and policies before using eBay.

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So where on that page is the deadline you insist they disclosed? All it says is "within 30 days of delivery," which is not the case. It's actually "within 30 days of delivery or 60 days from auction end, whichever comes first," but eBay won't change their wording.

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https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy...

eBay Money Back Guarantee timelines

Item not received

• A buyer can report that they didn't receive an item once the item's latest estimated delivery date has passed, and for 30 days after the latest estimated delivery date

[jeannicho22]

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@speed_racer wrote:

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@jeannicho22 wrote:

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@speed_racer wrote:

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@jeannicho22 wrote:

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@speed_racer wrote:

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@dola-4721 wrote:
Stop buying from China. Problem solved

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It is most definitely NOT xenophobic to advise a poster to avoid buying from sources of high problems.  If I advised a poster to avoid sellers who have a high number of negatives, that would make me smart, not negaphobic.  Most sellers are in fact honest and helpful, but there is a very high incidence of problems with many sellers in China.  Additionally, eBay has "special" rules for sellers in China that make it very difficult for a lot of buyers to maneuver.... You seem to have run into ONE of the problems.  You could have avoided this problem by buying from a seller with a more reasonable delivery date.

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What dola-4721 wrote and what you wrote are two different things. You wrote, "If I advised a poster to avoid sellers who have a high number of negatives," whereas she wrote "Stop buying from China." Unless you're implying that all sellers from China are dishonest, the two statements are obviously not synonymous.

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No.... not ALL sellers from China, and they are not held to the same standards as other sellers.  
As I said.... You've just run into one of them.  

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First you wrote that you agreed "Stop buying from China. Problem solved" i.e. avoid all Chinese sellers, is sound advice, then you write you're not agreeing with it. Which is it?

And what is this "not the same standards"? Where is your proof of those allegations? On those occasions I've had problems with items not arriving after a reasonable (4-6 week) estimated arrival date and had to open cases against Chinese sellers, eBay always refunded me as long as the tracking information didn't show delivery, or the sellers refunded me after I contacted them.

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What it is is that as a buyer I know that since seller aren't held to the same standards as other sellers, I know that I have to be vigilant in following through with any purchases.  I know that I'm not going to send any significant amount of money in a purchase.  I know that if I'm buying what are reported to be real pearls, I'm likely to get shaped shells or coated glass.  I know that if I purchase Amethyst beads I'm going to get resin.  I know if I purchase clothing it is going to be cheaply made and 3 sizes too small in spite of being geared towards western individuals.  I know that if I'm buying something reported to be in CA or NY or NJ, it is probably going to be sent via China Post.  I know that the same seller has numerous accounts violating no dups policy... this I know because of the pics and exact set up and wording in each listing.  I know that if I file an INAD, I'm going to have to play games with the seller to get my money back.

The problem is solved by stop buying from China.  If you are willing to put up with the above, AND THE PROBLEM YOU HAVE ADMITTEDLY RUN INTO... Have at it. 

[jame234]

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@mudshark61369 wrote:

@sunnysouth1, @jeannicho22 , @speed_racer ,

Each of you have questioned the MBG policy limitation or change.

  "This is news to me. I have never heard about this change... there is a very high incidence of problems with many sellers in China...  All it says is "within 30 days of delivery," which is not the case. It's actually "within 30 days of delivery or 60 days from auction end, whichever comes first," but eBay won't change their wording...".

And for others who have not heard about the "change" admission that there is a limit on the MBG for  items with an outside delivery date of 60+ days. 

And since that change went into effect way too many chinese sellers have started using EDDs of 60 days or more.  By doing that, they avoid defects, and the possibility of receiving negative feedback, and because many have never read the terms of PayPal's 180 day buyer protections, they do not file an INR through them so they lose their money.  

I thought I posted a link to the topic where Trinton told us about the change.  I guess I only posted the quote though. Below is the topic link.

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Buying-Selling-Basics/Might-this-be-example-of-ebay-money-back-guarant...

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@mudshark61369, 

The MBG Policy as shown on your link states buyer has 30 days.  It also states "in some cases, eBay allows more time" and one of these instances could possibly be seller's location such as China.  Trinton says there is no information on the item after 90 days so eBay can not help the buyer.  "In some instances" is not a guarantee and since it rarely takes an item 60 days to arrive from China, I doubt eBay Money Back Guarantee will be available to the buyer after the 30 day timeline stated in the policy.  Therefore, to recommend to the buyer to open a case in Paypal after the 30 day deadline is the safest and most assured way for buyer to get help.  Why advise the frustrated buyr anything that may not occur.  I feel advising Paypal after 30 days is the only way to go.

[mudshark61369]

@jame234,

eBay MBG, INR policy says:

"A buyer can report that they didn't receive an item once the item's latest estimated delivery date has passed, and for 30 days after the latest estimated delivery date".

read Last estimated delivery date (EDD).

NOTE: the policy does not state anything about ebay not being able to check trans action details after a certain amount of time which used to be 90 days after payment.

Trinton says in the topic link below:

  "the issue seems to be that the purchase occurred more than 60 days ago so eBay no longer has access to the payment nor do we have transaction details. We cannot see the payment date, the estimated delivery date or any other information about this purchase".

This was followed up by a reply to a different member:

Hi ________, this would actually fall under a system limitation anytime the transaction occurred more than 60 days prior to eBay being asked to step in. While the item not received request can be opened, we simply no longer have a record of the payment and thus cannot step in to potentially reverse. The time frame for protection in relationship to the estimated delivery date is not the issue, it is the fact that we do not keep a record of payment beyond a certain amount of time. Anytime this comes up, we have to direct a buyer to PayPal as eBay does not have any options. These situations are rare, as items are typically delivered much sooner.

TOPIC where he said the above

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Buying-Selling-Basics/Might-this-be-example-of-ebay-money-back-guarant...

Trinton is not saying there is no protection, only that after 60 days, ebay cannot access the info to be able to reverse the payment.  That has to be done through PayPal's 180 day policy.  It is a de facto admission, that eBay cannot step in to help a person with an INR, more than 60 days after the transaction/payment was made.  

@speed_racer  asked at the end of the original post;

  "how about some transparency? Show us when the deadline is. Don't make us guess and worry that it's going to pass before we know it".

So which is the correct answer to their question?

The Policy quote with no limit given about the last EDD ? 

Or,

Trintons admission that  "this would actually fall under a system limitation anytime the transaction occurred more than 60 days prior to eBay being asked to step in". 

NOW, do we want to make this an even more interesting discussion, and ask, What will happen as eBay Managed Payments is used more widely?  Will they provide a 180 day period for filing INR / SNAD disputes, or will it be much less time?

[jame234]

@mudshark61369,  Yes I understand that eBay is saying they do not have the information they need any longer to step in.  So I automatically advise INR in Paypal.  Now when managed payment is in full force, it is very very unfortunate if a buyer does not have access to paypal resolution center.  There are cases where buyer opens the wrong case such as opening a Return Request instead of opening a Refund Request and this happens often and I refer them to paypal to open a case.  Or the buyer fails to escalate and the eBay case closes.  Paypal is their back up.  I understood when eBay started Managed Payment that it would include the choice for buyer to pay through paypal if they wish by next summer?  Has this changed?  If it has, then there will be many buyers just plain out of luck and taking away the buyer's paypal buyer protection would be bad.

[beez5720]

But it IS relevant. 30 Days is PLENTY long enough. Just pointing out that it's more than fair, as some claim it isn't.

[lightlily_arts]

I buy a lot of small packet items from China and as you know some sellers do have extended delivery times.  eBay's default is to show then last 60 days of your purchases.   Therefore, if you need to see your purchases greater than 60 days you need to click the year option.  It's an extra step but readily available.

[Anonymous]

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@mudshark61369 wrote:

@forecastledistributors, @speed_racer ,

eBay can no longer access payment information or transaction details after 60 days, as per the quote by an eBay employee below, about this issue.

 On Jan. 14, 2019  trinton@ebay wrote:
Hi everyone, the issue seems to be that the purchase occurred more than 60 days ago so eBay no longer has access to the payment nor do we have transaction details. We cannot see the payment date, the estimated delivery date or any other information about this purchase".

Speed_racer, 

The warning by another member about buying from China is not Xenophobic. Unfortunately, it has become a sad fact of life on ebay that many Chinese sellers take advantage of every loophole, and often try to use various tactics to cause buyers to lose their buyer protections and ability to leave feedback.  Below is a link to a topic about this very issue posted today.

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Buying-Selling-Basics/Seller-wants-me-to-close-case-before-dispatching...

In your case, if you wait out the 60 days you will not be able to leave feedback as a warning to others.  Before midnight on day 60, I would leave a negative feedback for the seller saying:

"Seller deliberately trying to avoid neg feedback by having 61 day est. delivery date".

Since there is no good reason why an item should take 60 days to be delivered from China these days, you should avoid buying from any seller whose outside delivery date is 60 days or more from the date of payment. 

Yes, eBay should change the information about the filing time frame in the Money Back Guarantee (MBG)  policy, so people will know when the MBG protections lapse.  When Trinton posted the info above back in January several people suggested that the policy be adjusted to reflect the change and/or that an announcement be made.  Almost 6 months later neither has happened.

@Anonymous,

When can we expect to see the policy quoted below, changed to reflect the 60 day limit to be able to open an INR dispute through eBay?  Maybe you can explain why there is not a limit on last estimated delivery dates (EDDs). 

• Go to My eBay

  If your item hasn’t arrived or isn’t as described, go to My eBay, find the item in your purchase history, and select return or item not received within 30 days of delivery.

IMO a seller should not be able to have an outside EDD of more than 55 days. 

A) Buyers would then be able to see items in their purchase history without having to expand the dates.  Something many do not know they can do.

B) eBay would be able to see the transaction details, so at least the seller would get a defect for INR, and PayPal notified to issue a refund as they would if the EDD was less than 60 days.

C) Buyers could allow a couple of extra days for an item to be delivered, and not lose MBG protections. 

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Hi @mudshark61369, definitely want to clarify that a buyer can still open a request as long as they are within 30 days of the latest estimated delivery date or the actual delivery date, whichever is applicable. eBay simply cannot access the transaction to process a refund in some situations where the payment was made more than 60 days before we are asked to step in. This has always been the case, and is not a recent update. A request is still the best course of action for a buyer to pursue as the seller can resolve the buyer's concerns through the request or directly within the payment in PayPal. If there is an issue, the buyer can open a dispute in PayPal for up to 180 days after payment is made to work on a resolution. 

Our help pages/policy pages are designed to address the majority of situations and it is not possible for us to specifically speak to every unique scenario. A request can be opened within the timefames we discuss on the boards and in the rare instances of eBay being unable to access the payment due to the time that has passed, the buyer does have additional options for protection we will be happy to discuss with them.

As for an estimated delivery date, we do require that shipment occur within 30 days of payment. Anything outside of this time would be considered a violation. If a buyer is presented with an estimated delivery date like the one the OP was presented with, we can look into the listing to ensure that it does not violate our policies on how long a handling time can be.

[Anonymous]

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@speed_racer wrote:

Is it my imagination, or are these arbitrary deadlines becoming shorter and shorter? I have an item shipped from China that has an estimated arrival date as late as June 12. Yet eBay removed it from my purchase history more than a week ago. They won't allow you to open an "item not received" case before the final arrival date, so why did they end that option long before that final date? If you're going to impose a hard deadline like that, eBay, then do the same to the seller so they can't give a fake tracking number and say it will arrive in three months or whatever is obviously after the deadline.

Also, how about some transparency? Show us when the deadline is. Don't make us guess and worry that it's going to pass before we know it.

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Hi @speed_racer, you can adjust the view of your purchase history to show items beyond 60 days by using the See orders from: option at the top of your orders section. You can view all of your purchases from this year to go beyond the 60 day default. You can also go to the Resolution Center and select that you have not received an item, choose Continue, and be presented with items further back than 60 days that are eligible to have a request opened. If for some reason eBay cannot step in to access the transaction, you can work with PayPal to open a dispute for up to 180 days after payment. If you have any questions or concerns, you are welcome to contact Customer Service to discuss your purchase in more detail.

[mopata]

"item shipped from China" - I quit reading after that.