Scam sellers need vetted -- it's getting ridiculous

[scotthummel22]

I recently purchased a scratch touch-up marker for about $20. Immediately after entering the purchase, the seller instantly changed the delivery date -- by several weeks. So I immediately requested a cancellation, and they refused. Now the seller no longer exists. Feedback prior to six months ago was good, but recent feedback is horrible, with everyone saying the same thing. Seller is unresponsive, and item was not delivered.

I reported them to Ebay via Facebook a few weeks ago, but nothing has come of it. Once the delivery date came and went, I reported them again, but I'm still waiting for a resolution.

And today, Ebay emailed me to leave feedback with the company. Seriously? You can't leave feedback because the seller's account is closed.

Ebay desperately needs to start vetting sellers better and making sure on occasion that they're legit, or those scammers are going to lead a lot of prospective buyers away and to other resources.

I think maybe that account was hijacked long enough for scammers to cash in and then jet.

[scotthummel22]

The seller's feedback was good as a seller. Of course, you can't see it now because it all disappeared.

Yes, Ebay takes notice after an INR dispute is filed. That is a costly reactive approach. I'm suggesting being proactive, which is never a bad idea.

Not comparing Ebay to Craigslist. Just saying they took a proactive approach after business went south.

[maxine*j]

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@scotthummel22 wrote:

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Yes, Ebay takes notice after an INR dispute is filed. That is a costly reactive approach.   I'm suggesting being proactive, which is never a bad idea.

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How would you suggest that eBay "vet" each person who registers to sell on eBay?  That is literally millions of people, from all around the world. 

As it is, each of them must enroll in Managed payments, which requires more than one form of identification and a verifiable bank account.  Each new seller is limited in the kind, number, and value of items he may list.  Each new seller has the funds from his initial sales held for up to 30 days.  Those limits and holds continue for some time, until the seller has established himself to some degree as reliable (timely shipping, few if any INR or INAD claims against him, etc.)  Those limits and restrictions apply not only to new sellers but to seller who have been inactive for 90 days and/or sell only occasionally.

There is no question that there are lousy sellers on eBay, some who are intentionally dishonest and many who are just lazy or uninformed.  But what ideas to you have to make eBay more "proactive" in eliminating them and/or not letting them sell in the first place?

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[eburtonlab]

I did my due diligence. The seller had a lot of great feedback for months. Only recently, right around the time I made my purchase, did that change. If you are a seller, you should appreciate what I'm trying to do.

No one here can know what you saw, then or now, other than from what you have said about it here.

If there were absolutely no indications of any problems until suddenly the seller just stopped delivering items, how exactly was eBay supposed to recognize that in advance?

Perhaps it was not a hijacked account situation after all; perhaps the seller was hit by a bus.

eBay will have a hard time predicting either situation, no matter how proactive eBay is.

I am not saying eBay should not vet sellers; I am saying no matter how well eBay vets sellers, there will always be problems that eBay's vetting won't necessarily catch in advance. No matter how good eBay's vetting process is, buyers should still check seller feedback and look for and try to recognize obvious signs of scams. Even so, a seller account can be hacked, or used to scam in a non-obvious way, or a seller can be hit by a bus and fail to deliver what was advertised.

[scotthummel22]

How would you suggest that eBay "vet" each person who registers to sell on eBay?  That is literally millions of people, from all around the world. 

What I'm suggesting is a "flagging" system, much like social-media outlets have. The example I keep giving is the seller I dealt with. When you see a consistent trend for positive feedback suddenly turn completely, there should be an option for a buyer or even another seller to flag that seller so that Ebay can check it out.

It's beyond me why any honest seller would be opposed to this. Bad sellers are going to ruin it for them.

Are you a seller? If so, aren't you concerned that buyers are going to become more and more wary?

[scotthummel22]

Are you suggesting Ebay should just maintain the status quo? You don't think a flagging system alerting Ebay to a seller whose feedback suddenly went from very good to very bad is a good idea? Even if the seller was honest and was hit by a bus, it would be a good thing for Ebay to check on them.

Ecommerce and social media are getting inundated with scammers, though. I'm in that world as part of my job, and I see it regularly. I'd gladly take any "flag" alerts that consumers sent me. But for all of you honest sellers, I hope the bad ones don't ruin this market for you by driving away good buyers.

[bonjourami]

What will happen when sellers 'flag' the competition?

[scotthummel22]

False alarms would have consequences -- as they always have.

[bonjourami]

"False alarms would have consequences -- as they always have."

Maybe in the real world they do...

[eburtonlab]

Are you suggesting Ebay should just maintain the status quo?

No, I am suggesting that buyers should not assume that eBay will vet sellers much better in the future than eBay is already doing right now, or that scammers will somehow disappear or no longer be worth taking into consideration. I am suggesting that buyers and sellers should take steps to protect themselves right now rather than waiting for eBay to make them safer, regardless of what eBay does or does not do.

You don't think a flagging system alerting Ebay to a seller whose feedback suddenly went from very good to very bad is a good idea?

I think it's a fine idea, but it would not change how I use eBay. I would still look at seller feedback myself, and avoid deals that are suspicious or too-good-to-be-true, regardless.

If eBay instituted such a system, would you rely on it to always work 100%, and let your guard down when making a purchase? Would you do anything at all differently than you do right now to protect yourself? If a seller's feedback is going down, buyers can see that just as readily as eBay can. What should eBay's policy be for sellers who get bad feedback? Two bad feedback in a row and your sales are suspended? Ten in a row? If a scammer mixes in a few positives to dilute the negatives, should that matter to eBay?

If eBay sets an explicit limit, that just tells scammers how far they can go before they will be suspended. If eBay sets the limit too low, many otherwise innocent sellers will have their listings suspended for no good reason; if eBay sets the limit too high, scammers will keep getting away with their scams until the limit is reached. A scammer can sell a lot of "too good to be true" items before estimated delivery dates get missed and negative feedback starts to appear.

As a buyer you can decide if a listing has any red flags and avoid it on the basis of a gut feeling that you may not necessarily be able to explain or justify. eBay would have to be concerned with avoiding suspending otherwise legitimate sellers -- something that is not actually a concern for buyers deciding for themselves whether to make a purchase or not. Unless eBay chooses a limit that exactly matches or exceeds your own preferences in every instance and perfectly executes that policy, you should still use your own judgment rather than relying 100% on eBay (or anyone else) and ignoring your own instincts, in my opinion.

[brent_bham]

Same thing happened to me around the same time. I bought an item, received a "shipped" notification, and then the seller disappeared. My credit card company refunded the charge, which is why I ALWAYS use a credit card for online purchases. You just never know with eBay.