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Ethics Question

Friends: I'd like an opinion. Artist's hold copyrights to their ACEOS. Does that preclude a collector from posting their collection on a website? What happens when that collector wants to sell their collection or part thereof? Do they, in your opinion, have the right to publish the works in a catalog or post online, say, on Ebay, without seeking permissions? Opinions, please. Thom
Message 1 of 37
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36 REPLIES 36

Re: Ethics Question

Your thoughts are appreciated and respected Thom. I always appreciate other points of view. Thank you for letting them be known. I'm sure many will agree, and others won't - and even sometimes this gets to be a 'hot' issue. On a personal side, I found one of my images on another site once, with no credit given to me, nor had they asked permission. I was not happy with that combination, and asked them to remove it. I am sure artists DO want to be asked rather than giving a blanket right to expose their work, just so they can keep track of where their work is exposed. Remember that many have various beliefs that might not correspond with a site that might show their work. e.g. if I did a nude, and it went onto a xxx site - or if I was a Christian and it went on a site of a faith I did not agree with. Every once in a while I do check where I have given permission, and find that people have not lived up to what their assurances were - like to link to me, or whatever, so you can see that this can be quite an issue that can get out of hand. ~Jillian
~Jillian

artist, Jillian Crider

... google me!
Message 16 of 37
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Re: Ethics Question

I've read through the posts and unless I've missed something I have not seen anyone mention (VERA) - the Visual Artists Rights Act which goes beyond copyright. It is very important for people to read up on this. I use to have the .gov webpage containg information about the federal law but it no longer works... I did find this instead (hope it's OK for me to post it). www DOT studiolo DOT org/CIP/VARA/CIP-VARA DOT htm Anyone wishing to publicly display an artists artwork (including on the web) must have written permission.
Message 17 of 37
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Re: Ethics Question

Here is another explanation by Art Law: www DOT artslaw DOT org/MORAL DOT HTM . Since the gov. page no longer works artists seem to be using this now. I wish I could find the actual 1990 US law (The Visual Artists Rights Act of 1990 (VERA), 17 U.S.A. § EBAYISAPI.DLL), as it did speak about private and public display issues. Such as how VERA can be violated if someone resells a piece in a public space (store) but not if the sale is a private one. Very complex and such a shame the gov. has vanished.
Message 18 of 37
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Re: Ethics Question

It's all in the copyright threads on here. There are links galore. It is correct that ... Anyone wishing to publicly display an artists artwork (including on the web) must have written permission. Search threads using 'copyright' or use the links at the top of the discussion threads, I think that leads you there.
~Jillian

artist, Jillian Crider

... google me!
Message 19 of 37
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Re: Ethics Question

My only experience of this thing is a Choral Society used one of my pictures in a Poster for a concert. I phoned them blagged a couple of free tickets and left leaflets around at the venue. More worthwhile than threatening legal action. :-) Ken
http://www.artyman.co.uk
Message 20 of 37
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Re: Ethics Question

oh OK, thank you Jillian! I'm sorry to repost what's already there.
Message 21 of 37
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Re: Ethics Question

In case anyone whose bought any of my ACEO's they are already up for people to view. http://mycollectibles.kaboodle.com/kengillam Ken
http://www.artyman.co.uk
Message 22 of 37
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Re: Ethics Question

So, if I sneaked up on Josh and beat him over the head with an album full of other artist's aceos would I have to ask their permission first? Mick

"All black and white, nice." ~ golders
Message 23 of 37
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Re: Ethics Question

Sadly, you probably wouldn't have any trouble getting permission for that. Even more sadly, since I have one of Mick's aceos up on my blog without written permission, I am now totally at his mercy. Great. Just great. And Cherie54 too - she drew an image of me eating ribs. Oh, sure, you guys may say NOW that it's fine, don't worry about it. You're just waiting until I'm rich and famous and then WHAM! Lawsuit. Maybe I should remove them... or is it too late? Sigh. This is why I'm a criminal. Being an upright citizen is too much work.
Message 24 of 37
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Re: Ethics Question

Well, this is certainly an eye opener. I understand and agree with some of it, but definitely not with what appears to be the bottom line. I have a big art collection, albeit nothing that is probably ever going to find itself in a museum some day (although you never know :D), but enjoyable enough that I am proud of it and want to show it off. And have done so on some boards and the like. And there is no way I am going to ask every artist for permission to display their work. The expense and hassle would be too much, and, quite frankly, in some cases, would cost me more in time and trouble than that artist's work is probably worth. I also have to think most artists would take pride in having someone wanting to show off their work that that person valued enough to add to their collection. And as far as finding it on a greeting card or some such thing in the future, I think that risk was started once an image of the art was posted for sale on ebay, a website, or whathaveyou,-by the original artist, at that- and it is not the buyer's 'responsibility' to protect that copyright- which I think is different from the responsibility to not abuse that copyright. After all, as the buyer is so often reminded, that is the part of the art he didn't buy- his responsibility- even more, his motivation- is to fully enjoy his art in whatever way he can. (For the sake of brevity- probably with so so success, I suspect- I tried to be somewhat cryptic in my comments, I hope in doing so, I haven't come across as being too short or harsh. That is definitely not my intention and I apologize should it come across in any way stronger than I intended.)
. . .

If you go with the flow you'll either get washed out to sea or be dammed.
Message 25 of 37
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Re: Ethics Question

And boy, Josh, in view of the subject matter, your last line says a mouthful. 🙂
. . .

If you go with the flow you'll either get washed out to sea or be dammed.
Message 26 of 37
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Re: Ethics Question

Thank you for the VARA links. Interesting reading. I worked for so many years in Hollywood under the TV studio system, that the notion of retaining rights to the work I produced is alien to me; I simply have no rights, unlike a novelist, screenwriter (under certain circumstances) and, so it seems, a fine artist. Well and good. I still think there's room to make this issue of display for non commercial use easier for patrons, so I'm going to pursue it. Stop listening when you're bored with me :-) It seems to me, wearing a patron hat, that I would be happy to exchange droite de suite (a piece of any profits made on resale--royalties, if you will) for permission to post on a website, or use an image of the work to actually sell it. I think it's also reasonable to give an artist the right to terminate our agreement if he/she doesn't like where the image is posted. With that in mind, on future ACEO's that I post, I am going to include wording that indicates that a blanket non-commercial license is available should a patron want it. Upon inquiry, I'd make that license available to ship with the work when it sells. Included in that license will be a contract for droite de suite of 25% of any future profit on the work (however that is defined) in exchange for permission to display and use the work in a non-commercial way. There's obviously lots of room for personal tailoring here, but my point is, as artists we may as well set the terms under which we permit display of our work up front. Because the reality is, not many here are going to spend the money to litigate me placing my collection of ACEOs on a website for copyright violation. $10 sale, $10,000 lawsuit. As a practical matter, these things are pretty much out of our hands when we ship the art. So, I'm suggesting a friendly way of framing this "conversation" with patrons before the fact. Artists can make such an agreement seem like a real win for the patron. Remember, they are customers, and one still wants to develop a business even whilst protecting ones rights. Ok, that's all I'll say on this now. If no one else thinks this is worthy of further discussion, I'll lie down. 🙂 But if you do, I think we could benefit by discussing ways to come up with a release that is reasonably boilerplate looking, with room for us as individual artists to custom make it to our liking. Cheers! Thom
Message 27 of 37
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Re: Ethics Question

Uh, hungryforribsjosh....thatz cherieb52....and...call me Cherie! ;)
♥Cherie♥
Google me: Cherie's Art
Message 28 of 37
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Re: Ethics Question

Cherie- Aren't you supposed to be making spaghetti?
julee


Can't sleep, the clowns will eat me. ~ Alice Cooper
Message 29 of 37
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Re: Ethics Question

LOL...you betcha! (psssst....after all the different names I've called Josh...I'm givin' him a hard time about spellin my name wrong...heh, heh...aren't I awful?) don't tell him!!LOL....
♥Cherie♥
Google me: Cherie's Art
Message 30 of 37
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