Ethics Question

[pappy-b]

Friends: I'd like an opinion. Artist's hold copyrights to their ACEOS. Does that preclude a collector from posting their collection on a website? What happens when that collector wants to sell their collection or part thereof? Do they, in your opinion, have the right to publish the works in a catalog or post online, say, on Ebay, without seeking permissions? Opinions, please. Thom

[artistjillian]

A collector should not post their collection on their website. They can ask permission to, from the artist, and if they say ok, then it's ok. But not otherwise. To resell you can make a 'temporary' image.

[d-baron]

Jillian, that first paragraph is a new one for me- is that true for all art, or is there something about the size of ACEO's that make posting them some kind of different issue?

[artistjillian]

That is all art.

[jeanze]

Hmmmm... interesting, because eBay just started offering that collection sharing thingy. Kaboodle? Am I remembering that correctly? I know that some people are using it to showcase their own art, but others are using it to show their collections. I definitely definitely definitely agree that artist permission is absolutely necessary before posting their image. For sure!!! I can also see that an artist agreeing to that (with full credit given, of course) can be a great way to gain attention in interest. A type of advertising, so to speak. But can you imagine, as a collector, trying to get permission from all the artists you've collected? (I don't even know how many art cards I've purchased at this point, but it would take days of emailing to even being to gather permissions. I sure don't have that kind of time!) Excellent, educational topic!

[thornwolf227]

I think it might be considered poor form by most artists if the collector posts their collection online without first contacting the artist. As for posting to sell the items I don't see a problem with it as long as its a temporary posting of the image as jillian said.

[sunshinesketches]

It would be poor form - AND illegal to post them anywhere. Whether an artist implies or openly states that they own the copyright to reproduction in any media, the only way a buyer owns it outright is if they have a signed release from the artist. The problem is that most artists won't pursue any legal recourse (because it's expensive and small artists especially do not have the funds to do it, and also they don't want to lose a potential repeat buyer). I sold an ACEO to a person who has repeatedly asked me to sign a release to let her publish that one item she bought from me in a book that she says will be given as a promotional item to various Hollywood stars. Now these said stars get lots of freebies as it is, and I'm not convinced that they'd go out of their way to look up little ole me on eBay to buy more of my work, so I'm rather inclined to NOT give permission for my work to be reproduced in such a way. /Karen

[artistjillian]

jeanze, I totally agree re the ebay ka..... thing - though if anyone reads feedback, the old auctions are always available. When I first went to Ka.... I wondered how they got away with it - but it might be something in ebay terms that actually DOES allow it. I don't know. I think that all it will take is one person to dispute it and it's gone, I think. But then, I'm not a lawyer. I try to be very careful about my art rights. ~Jillian

[harmoniousjosh]

Ok, I got a couple of questions. Recently, Mick sold an aceo with my studly image on it. I put the aceo on my blog, made it clear Mick (not I) was the author, and linked to the auction. 1. I didn't ask Mick's permission. I probably should have; bad form on my part, but could I have actually gotten in legal trouble in this situation? 2. Since he made money using my pretty face, can I demand a cut? I'm looking at you, too, Landis... those muscles you drew are REAL. I'm not serious for the second one, just to be clear. HJ

[harmoniousjosh]

By author, I mean artist.

[jeanze]

Technically speaking, Mick retains the copyright to the image, and you were a naughty blogger. 🙂 If you tick Mick off and he's feeling litigious, you might be in real trouble!

[sunshinesketches]

Josh, depending on the juristiction you're in, and the one the alleged crime of slander, defamation of character and/or libel occurred in, yes, you could sue him. Tort laws generally allow that if "publication of a false statement of fact, made with the requisite state of mind, that causes injury" causes you embarrassment or causes harm to your reputation, you can sue. Now whether it would be worthwhile to sue a poor starving artist is another thing altogether. 😉

[artistjillian]

There is a different law for characterizations.

[artistjillian]

Also if certain images are considered 'public'. I know of 'personalities' that have tried to sue, but because they had released images that were readily available in many places, they couldn't sue on the usual grounds.

[pappy-b]

Interesting answers, and I appreciate them. I might make a suggestion that we as artists might want to consider. I for one want to post my collection of ACEO's on my website, a kind of personal gallery, if you will. I think there may be other collectors who wish to do the same. I might suggest that artists who believe that this is acceptable include language as to such in their postings, and include a release for non-commercial use with the sale. I for one will not be bidding on any other ACEO until I can get that permission from the artist up front. That's going to be a real hassle for me, but since I own the artwork I consider posting the image in a non-commercial way as fair use. Others will disagree, and that is their right. there will always be artists who have a fear of posting images, etc. But I have to tell you, I've made my living in intellectual property rights for 30 years, and even I think that the permissions issue has gotten completely out of hand. Wearing my collector hat now, it seems absolutely ridiculous that I have to scramble around for 35 permissions to post on my website images of art that I purchased for my collection. (What would happen if I opened a museum and took admission? Do museums pay royalties to artists for exhibition of paintings in their collections? That's an honest question--I don't really know.) Of course, with my artist hat, I don't want the art used to launch a series of greeting cards without my permission. There has to be a reasonable place in the middle short of requiring permissions of every single artist after the fact, which is why, as a group, I put these ideas to you for your comments. Kind Regards Thom