ebay enables criminal behavior by buyers

[sfriedenthal]

My 16yo son made the mistake of believing that he could sell his bike on ebay.  He included photos and an accurate descriptoion and, naively, thought that selecting "no returns" meant something.

He shipped a highly modified and high performance mountain bike for $600.  After carefully wrappping it in buggle wrap and sending it Fedex (all fees not reimbursed by ebay) the buyer proclaimed that the bike was "defective" because it looked used.  It was advertised as a well maintained 9 year old bike.  The buyer demanded several hundred dollars to be "paid" to him or he would return the bike.

ebay took ZERO interest in investigating, closed the case and returned the full purchase price to the buyer with NO requirement from the buyer to even return the bike.

I called customer service and they were no help.  Basically, they will "as a favor" send an email and "suggest" to the buyer that he return the bike, but they admitted that the buyer is under NO obligation to do so.  They get to keep a bike in excellent conditon and a full refund of their money and shipping costs.

What kind of company operates this way???!  This is criminal.  

It is obvious that the ebay business model is designed to attract dishonest buyers as the expense of sellers.

[shoptalkid]

Lesson 1:  as a new, small, or just inexperienced seller NEVER sell anything on eBay you can't afford to lose.     A nice bike is a big ticket item for a 16 year old to be selling, especially via online sales with shipping involved.  

Lesson 2:   NO RETURNS means nothing if a buyer opens an "item not as described".   The Money-Back Guarantee kicked in and that's why the buyer won.   If a seller doesn't repy to a case or if they respond with "I do not accept returns", they lose.    It would have been better to accept the return, pay the return shipping label and get the item back.   Sometmes the buyers  won't bother to use the label, so they don't return the item and they just go away.   

Craigslist or FB local would have been better selling options and your son would have had his money.  Maybe not as much as what it sold for on eBay, but he would have at least had something.  Now he has nothing.  Amateur sellers on eBay selling big ticket items are magnets for scammers.    Sorry this happened to him.  It's a hard lesson to learn.  

[stuff4divas]

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@mam98031 wrote:

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@missjen831 wrote:

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@mam98031 wrote:

@Anonymous

Can one of the CSRs offer any help to this OP.

While I agree with others that the young man should not have sold anything on Ebay, clearly something is wrong here.  Why would Ebay allow the buyer keep the bike and force a full refund?

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It’s because he refused to accept the return & pay for return shipping. Not a surprising outcome.

but considering the seller is 16....if he registered his account as a 16 year old then eBay has some explaining to do. A 16 year old cannot legally enter into a contract so......I bet eBay refunds him 😉

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What policy states this?

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Policy cannot override illegal activity so @missjen831 is correct, contracts signed by minors are legally un-enforceable. But, it is possible to go after the parent, depending on the circumstances.

[nushu-0]

But if the minor was selling on the adult account with the adults permission, does the adult then take on the legal responsibilities?

[missjen831]

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@mam98031 wrote:

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@missjen831 wrote:

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@mam98031 wrote:

@Anonymous

Can one of the CSRs offer any help to this OP.

While I agree with others that the young man should not have sold anything on Ebay, clearly something is wrong here.  Why would Ebay allow the buyer keep the bike and force a full refund?

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It’s because he refused to accept the return & pay for return shipping. Not a surprising outcome.

but considering the seller is 16....if he registered his account as a 16 year old then eBay has some explaining to do. A 16 year old cannot legally enter into a contract so......I bet eBay refunds him 😉

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What policy states this?

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The money back guarantee. Under “when an item isn’t returned to the seller “ https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy?id=4210

this clause is why many of us tell a seller never to ask eBay to step in, and to just accept the return. Because it’s very common for a refund to be issued without a return when the seller didn’t accept an SNAD return. 

[nushu-0]

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@nushu-0 wrote:
But if the minor was selling on the adult account with the adults permission, does the adult then take on the legal responsibilities?

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Underage user policy overview

You must be at least 18 years old to be an eBay member.

A person under 18 can use an adult's account with the permission of the account holder. However, the account holder is responsible for everything done with that account.

Make sure you follow these guidelines. If you don’t, you may be subject to a range of actions, including limits of your buying and selling privileges and suspension of your account.

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So to answer my own question the adult becomes responsible.

[stuff4divas]

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@nushu-0 wrote:
But if the minor was selling on the adult account with the adults permission, does the adult then take on the legal responsibilities?

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Yes. Minor should not be allowed access to the eBay account, its pass words, etc. for the purpose of buying, selling, etc. but with or without the parent's permission, the parent is responsible.

[nushu-0]

@sfriedenthal 

Can you please come back and tell us how you handled the case?

[chrysylys]

We really need to get passed the victim blaming.  Based on the thread content (without looking at the listing) I see nothing here that makes the seller, either the minor or the adult responsible for what happened.  The buyer is primarily at fault.  The system was also at fault for allowing a SNAD claim based on 'looks used' for a 9 year old item.  Of course it's going to 'look used'.  The claim should have been rejected.

[mam98031]

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@stuff4divas wrote:

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@mam98031 wrote:

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@missjen831 wrote:

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@mam98031 wrote:

@Anonymous

Can one of the CSRs offer any help to this OP.

While I agree with others that the young man should not have sold anything on Ebay, clearly something is wrong here.  Why would Ebay allow the buyer keep the bike and force a full refund?

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It’s because he refused to accept the return & pay for return shipping. Not a surprising outcome.

but considering the seller is 16....if he registered his account as a 16 year old then eBay has some explaining to do. A 16 year old cannot legally enter into a contract so......I bet eBay refunds him 😉

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What policy states this?

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Policy cannot override illegal activity so @missjen831 is correct, contracts signed by minors are legally un-enforceable. But, it is possible to go after the parent, depending on the circumstances.

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Ebay had no way of knowing that the son was selling the item.  I believe you have to be 18 to have an Ebay account for the vary reason you state.  So he must have been using someone else's account or he didn't tell Ebay the truth about his age.

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/identity-policies/age-limits-policy?id=4233

[mam98031]

Thank you Jen.  

[mam98031]

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@nushu-0 wrote:

@sfriedenthal 

Can you please come back and tell us how you handled the case?

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I too would like the OP to come back and give us an update, but with the temperature on this thread I understand why they don't.

[mam98031]

By the way Jen.  I have NO IDEA why I asked that question last night.  I knew the answer.  Well except at that moment in time for some reason.  I have no excuse whatsoever!!!

[carlmarxx]

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@chrysylys wrote:

We really need to get passed the victim blaming.  Based on the thread content (without looking at the listing) I see nothing here that makes the seller, either the minor or the adult responsible for what happened.  The buyer is primarily at fault.  The system was also at fault for allowing a SNAD claim based on 'looks used' for a 9 year old item.  Of course it's going to 'look used'.  The claim should have been rejected.

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I have been following  this thread  and the OP has not  come back   since posting  !  I have not looked at  OP's completed listings to see  the bike.   Best thing  that could have been done  was  not  to blame  the  OP's son .     

[carlmarxx]

Well OP is using a Posting ID .

[missjen831]

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@mam98031 wrote:

By the way Jen.  I have NO IDEA why I asked that question last night.  I knew the answer.  Well except at that moment in time for some reason.  I have no excuse whatsoever!!!

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Haha I figured it was just a brain fart, we all have them!!

i am curious if the OPs son registered his own account? There is another thread where a parent is alleging her child signed up for eBay at 15 and used his correct birthdate. So if this OPs 16 year old registered as a 16 year old, and didn’t lie about his age or use mom/dads account, eBay has some explaining to do!!!