eBay standard envelope is a SCAM

[theclemsonkidcards]

I’ve just now finished my third refund of the day for a trading card that didn’t show up thanks to eBay standard envelope shipping. The entire eBay standard envelope for trading cards is a SCAM that eBay is aware of. I know this because I’ve emailed once, and spoken to a real life human on two separate occasions. 

Here’s why it’s a SCAM:

After my fifth envelope in as many months didn’t make it to the buyer, I decided to talk to my local postmaster about the eBay standard envelope. Apart from the “tracking” being a lie, I asked him why they kept disappearing. He asked if I had one that I was shipping that day. I sure did. I had 10+. When I handed him one, he immediately said “well here’s your problem. It’s too rigid. If it can’t be bent like a piece of paper, the sorting machine will get jammed, rip it apart, or spit it out into who knows where. So your missing ones are either being destroyed or lost.”

I then proceeded to tell him that per eBay’s own page (which I opened on my phone and showed him) it says you can have up to two top loaded cards per envelope.  He asked what a top loader was, so I ran back out to my car and grabbed two to show him. Once they were in his hands, he said there is no way two of these would ever be able to go through the sorting machine. He said (and I’m paraphrasing here) “As rigid as those are, you’ve got a package. Not a letter. You should let eBay know that their information isn’t correct”. 

So, I did just that. I talked with a human at eBay. Told him everything I just said above. After I forced him to pull up his own company’s page, because he thought I was lying, He said (again paraphrasing) “oh wow. Yeah that looks like it could be a problem”. He then promised me that he would 100% run that up the ladder, because “obviously what eBay was saying and what the Post Office was saying were not on the same page” and “I can understand why you’re upset about losing some packages and losing some money in returns”. 

He then promised me that he would refund as many of my lost packages as he was able, and also that he’d bring this to his supervisor to get things fixed. 

it’s been about six weeks since that conversation. Since then, I’ve had four more packages go missing, have received zero refunds from eBay… and as of 10 minutes ago, their page still happily states you can add two top loaded cards to an eBay standard envelope; even though they are now WELL AWARE that the USPS sorting machines cannot process those and will continue to destroy/lose them. 

Not only is it annoying, but I recently got my first negative feedback (in 1,100+ completed sales) because of an eBay standard envelope that didn’t arrive after 30 days. That hurts my livelihood. 

I’ve also spoken with numerous other eBay sellers who all have the same story. eBay knows. eBay has done nothing. Which means eBay doesn’t care. 

So, I just reached out to my family attorney who is putting me in touch with a colleague of his who works in legal consumer affairs. He told me if everything I told him was true, eBay could very easily be held to compensatory damages, and if a judge decided they knew and didn’t fix the problem, punitive damages as well. 

So who else out there is having their eBay business and livelihood negatively affected by this? Perhaps we should all have a chat and see if we can’t do something outside of eBay to fix this issue. Since clearly eBay doesn’t want to.    

[onefootflipper1]

Don't use top loaders.

Search youtube for videos on how to pack standard envelope. There are a few.

My exception rate rounds down to zero these days.

[tobaccocardyahoo]

I get my best results with ESE with 5 x 7 cardboard envelopes which everyone will tell you are too rigid.

There is more variation in postal equipment and postal employee behavior than anyone will admit.

Ebay is trying its best to make it possible for sellers to sell cheap items on the site which may yield less money for the sellers than the minimum wage does.

It appears that someone at USPS figured out how to scan tracking on sorting machines which were used to scan routing codes.

I am sure that many Ebay sellers throw a toploader in an envelope as I do and do nothing to anchor it, nothing to keep one toploader from moving overlap another, and all in all treat the process on a manner requiring little time or effort.

ESE is not suitable for my use, but I have $5 in profit as a minimum on my items. I do not go so low that shipping is close to double the cost of the item, or higher, and do not care if some buyers are deterred from buying because of the cost of shipping.

I have a few items which were part of my test of ESE still listed, I am prepared to refund on them if they sell and go missing. And not going to waste any more effort listing anything to ship ESE.

[1786davycrockett]

@theclemsonkidcards 

I agree -- eBay promised more than could realistically be expected regarding the required flexibility of the ESE -- and eBay should re-phrase its explanation of how to use the ESE by plainly stating that the ESE must be flexible enough to bend easily around a 3" metal cylinder.

That being said -- the ESE is still quite functional for the purposes for which it was intended:  an inexpensive method to ship trading cards, currency, post cards, stamps, stickers, coins, greeting cards, seeds and patches, so long as the value is below $20.00 for a single item, or $50.00 for combined items.

And, so long as your ESEs received an initial USPS scan, you can open up insurance claims with eBay, although the waiting time is a minimum of 30 days.  To ensure that your ESEs receive an initial USPS scan, the ESEs should be dropped in the "Metered Mail" slot in USPS lobbies.

Before you spend too much money on an attorney, I would advise reviewing the eBay contract to which you had originally agreed at the time that you had joined eBay, particularly any sections regarding taking legal action against eBay.

[onefootflipper1]

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@1786davycrockett wrote:

@theclemsonkidcards 

Before you spend too much money on an attorney, I would advise reviewing the eBay contract to which you had originally agreed at the time that you had joined eBay, particularly any sections regarding taking legal action against eBay.

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Original poster would have to overcome both the binding arbitration clause in the ebay contract they forgot about agreeing to long ago. 

Then there is this on the requirements page, which the original posters envelopes almost certainly didn't meet.

• Envelope thickness is non-uniform, rigid, and/or thicker than 0.25” inches at any point

Also, never center the the item in the envelope, always offset it to one side or the other, this allows the envelope to fold in half easily without damaging anything and that fact makes it not attract attention to postal employees making up their own rules. 

[retrobiz]

I came across your post because I was looking at ebay supplies trying to figure out which envelopes ebay considers 'standard' and 'flexible'.  I still don't know the best ones to use.  However, as a paper crafter, I can tell you that you can put the postage on, write 'hand cancel' under the top part, and then just take it to the window or set it on the counter.  If you drop it in the hopper, it will go through a machine.  They might get a little snide with you at the window when you had over a big stack, but service with a smile is rare these days.  I do take them a box of mixed nuts every now and then.  They do have a hard job.  But,  I still don't know how 'rigid' is rigid, and which envelopes ebay says is ok.  I do see the ones for individual trading cards now.  Looks like those could get wrinkled and bent as the dickens unless they are sturdier than they look.

[worldcoinauctions]

My shipping policy on ESEs is that cards ship in a penny sleeve, if the customer wants them in a top loader they have to pay the $5 shipping for ground advantage. That said, if they show any scans at all and did not get delivered then you can get a refund of your postage and sale amount from ebay. There is a form you have to fill out and you have to wait 30 days from shipping. I've done that a few times and always gotten my refund.

(oddly it refunds to a paypal account which is not linked to my ebay!)

[kensgiftshop]

Are you opening a case for the ones not delivered for a refund from Ebay?

[xadexane]

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@theclemsonkidcards wrote:

It’s too rigid. If it can’t be bent like a piece of paper, the sorting machine will get jammed, rip it apart, or spit it out into who knows where. So your missing ones are either being destroyed or lost. 

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That's an incontrovertible lie. How do thousands of credit cards which absolutely do not bend and even 2 side-by-side go through the sorting machine, mailed in a business envelope @theclemsonkidcards and not get jammed, rip it apart, or spit it out into who knows where, and missing ones are either being destroyed or lost?

[theclemsonkidcards]

Nice use of “incontrovertible”

*chefs kiss*

[daimonddavid86]

I'm glad I found this. I was starting to think that buyers were being dishonest or that someone in the post office was just opening the envelopes and taking the cards.  I've had a huge amount of buyers claim they never received trading cards shipped in an armalope. It's not going to be worth it to sell if I have to refund every order that doesn't get scanned delivered. I suspect that some buyers have caught on to the inconsistency of the usps in scanning ebay card tracking on delivery. They have been scanning them early or not at all.  At that point all they would have to do is say they never got it. I have got positive feedback from many orders that were never scanned delivered. Since they don't have to be scanned at the origin, theres no way to know what happens until its delivered. I can't prove that I ever even shipped it. If the cards aren't coming back in the mail, where are they going? I've had alot show up late, but rarely just dissapear and never come back to me.  This article might explain why its taking 2-3 weeks for first class ebay tracking. It's really a hassle and its going to break alot of sellers. There's very little profit selling cards to begin with, and thats going out the window for all of the refunds. I know for sure there are some buyers intentionally getting free cards bcs I've had one try and get a refund multiple times bcs they know I will. At some point you can't be nice to everyone anymore.  I'm thinking to just start blocking people that say they didn't get it on orders where everything else that went out that day was delivered. I'm not buying the whole sorting machine thing because about 6 months ago I was shipping 100's of single card orders with top loaders. I might have had 2 returned out of 1,000 for non machineable. Most of my buyers get the cards early. I guess it could be random ones getting stuck that are taking 3 weeks. The break down seem's to be at the same time usps is having major turn over bcs they don't pay enough for the cost of living. I read that everyone is quitting and the new hires aren't being trained properly. I could see why they wouln't care about scanning every envelope bcs no one want's thier job and theyre already short staffed so theres no pressure about being disciplined. All of the cards I ordered on tcg player are being delivered with stamps bcs they don't have this system. I wouldn't want to deal with all of the return attempts they get. Do you have any idea's of how to be defensive as a seller? obviously they will ruin you with negative feedback if u don't just cave and refund, but something has to be done to sort out who is actually not getting cards and who is scamming. 

[kh-adrian]

Hi everyone,

Due to the age of this thread, it has been closed to further replies. Please feel free to start a new thread if you wish to continue to discuss this topic.

Thank you for understanding.