What is the point of "no returns" option when it is never enforced?

[htwingnut]

Why does the "No Returns" option even exist? I sold a video game recently as "no returns" as it was brand new, in packaging. The buyer made up a reason to return it at the last minute that seemed pretty shady, and my photos of the item I shipped didn't indicate anything they claimed.

I asked buyer to substantiate their claim with photo evidence. They refused. Of course the eBay bot stepped in and said I needed to resolve the return request with the buyer and threatens me with negative eBay feedback and reputation.

I told eBay I asked the buyer to provide photo evidence of their claim, but they refused. eBay says I need to accept the return. No evidence required.

So why even have a "no returns" option if buyer can just make stuff up and seller is stuck with all shipping fees and listing fees and stuck with likely a used or damaged item that was new?

If a buyer doesn't want to risk it, then don't buy an item listed as "no returns".  Or at a minimum force the buyer to pay return shipping and a "restocking" fee.

[inhawaii]

I agree with you.  However, ebay will enforce the the no return policy for remorse returns. 

Any other reason (true or false) and the seller is required to pay for and accept the return. 

It sucks but that's the way it is. 

[lja440]

There is no point to having a No Returns policy as eBay's TOS will always over rule yours. Their sandbox, their rules.

That's why I stay away from certain categories. Sure my categories have somewhat smaller profit margins, but to my mind I'd rather make $10 that I get to keep than $20 that I may have to give back. 

[johnrj1226]

Having a  no returns policy is  meaningless and will only lead to customer dissatisfaction & they will leave you a  bad report card.  Have never denied a return for any reason  - taking  returns is just part of doing business.  Shipped 1529 items (net -less  returns) and only  had 6 returns - most were remorse  reasons and only 1  Item Not As Described.  By allowing remorse returns I minimize my losses on  returns - buyer pays  returns shipping & I have the option to refund the original shipping paid if the  S & H was/is a separate charge - which mine are.  If the  buyer  has a decent attitude I will refund the original  S & H - bad  'tude not.

FYI, I wouldn't do business with any one  that doesn't accept returns on line sellers or B & M stores - I feel the are hiding something or will be difficult to  deal with should a problem  arise - exceptions being yard/estate sales, GW & the like - but I  have a chance to  touch, feel, operate the items before I lay out my shekles.

[variety_nook]

@johnrj1226 

And you're the person at the customer service counter that everybody trying to make a legitimate return at the store hates to get behind.

"The elastic on these panties is too tight, and so what if I wore them a few times already" Ewwww, icky, P.U.

"Stay away from negative people, they have a problem for every solution.".... johnrj1226

Hap.. Hap.. Happy!!!!! 

[mudshark61369]

@htwingnut,

As the others have written, a no return policy just doesn't fly in the face of ebay's Money Back Guarantee (MBG).  However, concerning the new video game, had you had a Free return policy on that game, if it was returned after being opened, you could have deducted the lost value of the game from the refund, because it was now used.  Read the info in the two links below, and stick to your guns after getting the item back.

Also take a look at the buyer's feedback profile, if they've left negs before that the seller responded to, it might show a pattern of abusing the returns system, which can be reported.

https://pages.ebay.com/seller-center/seller-updates/2019-spring/seller-protections.html

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/selling-policies/seller-protection-policy?id=4345

Don't the Wings seem to be doing better with Stevie back?

[johnrj1226]

@variety_nook 

Sorry you  missed your  target.  You  have no clear idea  of who I am or my level  of integrity.  Without knowing more about your  subject  than what you really do it is best to keep silent - your slip is showing..

PS:  i see you do offer 30 day returns

[variety_nook]

@johnrj1226 

Back at ya!

BTW, love Ron White! You should try. 

[htwingnut]

If you're a big seller, then maybe it's part of doing business. But when you're just a small fry trying to make a few extra honest bucks selling stuff around the house, it can hurt. In the grand scheme of things, the amount of this transaction isn't that much. But in principle it bugs me. That eBay supports a dishonest return request by not even requiring some form of supporting evidence for a claim.

I'm all for accepting returns if there is something legitimately wrong with an item, or has a misleading description. But at least require some form of evidence before just blanket siding with the buyer.

To be honest, if the buyer just said "hey, the package is still unopened and I just decided I didn't want it" I'd be more likely to work something out if they're honest. But to claim something is fake, just rubs me the wrong way.

[fern*wood]

---

@htwingnut wrote:

To be honest, if the buyer just said "hey, the package is still unopened and I just decided I didn't want it" I'd be more likely to work something out if they're honest. But to claim something is fake, just rubs me the wrong way.

---

That right there is why I do have a return policy.  I have found that many of my returns are by buyers that just change their minds, so allowing for this return, saves me the shipping money.  The buyer doesn't make up a reason to return as not as described if the remorse reasons are available. 

[johnrj1226]

There should be very  little difference whether you are a large volume seller of a hobby seller.    I sold material handling equipment (primarily forklift trucks) for  41  year -   price range/unit approx $15K -$70K - minimum  unit  sales/year 50 - average 70.   I find that by using  the  same selling principles I applied during those 41  years  to my on line eBay "hobby" selling activities yield a high  level of customer  satisfaction.  The biggest difference is  that my profit  margins after  ALL selling costs are very  much higher on my eBay  sales - well north of 45% of the total revenue  received  (included S & H revenue) vs 12 -15% on  those big ticket items.

We  used to sell $800 -1000/month on eBay but due to personal reasons we scaled back - couldn't  devote the time required to continue on - health is more important.  Yes I retired in 2007.

[johnrj1226]

I'm fine just the way I am and  still have more than a bakers dozen of friends that I've known & still regularly stay in touch with since my freshman year @ WMU, K'zoo, Mi. in 1963.   Get along well with my neighbors.

[thehonorabletrader]

Context

Hello All, I have some context I would like to share. This is how I choose to think of it. But it also makes the most sense.

Credit Card Buyer Protections and what sellers agree to

So if you want to let your buyer pay with Visa, you have to accept Visa's Merchant Agreement. This agreement states that the seller will honor the buyer protections the credit card company provides and agrees to be bound by the outcome of any disputes between the seller and the buyer via the Credit Card Purchase Protection. MasterCard, Discover, AmericanExpress, and PayPal all have the same Merchant requirements.

You agreed to these through the PayPal User Agreement. PayPal can't let you accept these cards unless you agree to these. This isn't special to eBay or you. This is the same rules Walmart, Target, Amazon, your local gas station, the girl that does your hair, and the person selling lemonade that is taking credit cards on the corner. Size does not matter, it's just you either agree to those terms or you can not accept the payment method. Period. End of Story. It's Visa's Sandbox, they make the rules. It's Discovers Sandbox, they make the rules...etc...

So, I theorize that eBay has the return policy because in many chargebacks the buyer doesn't always return the item. This would leave the seller without the item and without the money. As a result, eBay just wants to get the item back to the seller. Also, this is why MBG forces returns, because you have already agreed to allow buyers to return for SNAD via the card holder agreement (and additionally the eBay User Agreement).

Sure there are other ways eBay can approach this. But this way is designed to reduce the number of chargebacks as small as possible.

While this may not be the exact reason eBay forces the returns, the Merchant Agreement is accurate and so therefore this makes the most sense.

[rpalma]

Unfortunately, the "no returns" policy only protects you from returns from honest people.

The scammers who claim SNAD always win.

This is unfair, but it's ebay's policy.

[rpalma]

Your comments may apply to your business and your business model, but they aren't generally true.

By the way, if you really needed something and the only person selling it was an ebay seller who did not accept returns, I'm pretty sure you'd buy it. Obviously ebay would force a return if the item was SNAD.

That is the actual valid use of the ebay policy. It wasn't meant to get scammers free items and free returns.