Shipping switcheroo

[dougsue123b]

So I ordered something I need asap. I pick a seller that offered free priority mail shipping. Has the fast and free logo displayed. Ordered on the 20th and tracking shows label printed. I contact him to ask if it was shipped and just not scanned. He tells me he sent it this mornig Fedex smartpost.

How can he advertise priority then switch to smartpost? 

What can I do? I make it a point not to buy smartpost delivered stuff because I hate that service.

[Anonymous]

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@missjen831 wrote:

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@laylajames9wrote:

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@Anonymouswrote:

Hi lookng2015, our focus is on the delivery timeframe, not the service. There may be times where the seller decides to use a different shipping method and as long as the item is shipped within the stated handling time and/or arrives on time, the seller is not considered to be at fault.

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Trinton, how does this policy change, if at all, when there are multiple shipping methods offered on the listing?

If a listing has Priority, First Class and Media Mail as options and the buyer chooses Priority, shouldn't the seller be required to ship Priority (or better) if that's the service chosen and paid for? Wouldn't shipping Media Mail in that case be considered "not as described" even if the seller meets their handling time and/or the estimated delivery date?

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Trinton has stated that the shipping method is not part of the item description. So shipping media mail when the listing specified priority is not SNAD. There is written policy that says otherwise though. 

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Hi @missjen831, can you link me to the written policy on this? There may be a contradiction between my resources and something posted publicly that I am happy to look into for adjustments.

[missjen831]

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@Anonymouswrote:

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@missjen831wrote:

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@laylajames9wrote:

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@Anonymouswrote:

Hi lookng2015, our focus is on the delivery timeframe, not the service. There may be times where the seller decides to use a different shipping method and as long as the item is shipped within the stated handling time and/or arrives on time, the seller is not considered to be at fault.

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Trinton, how does this policy change, if at all, when there are multiple shipping methods offered on the listing?

If a listing has Priority, First Class and Media Mail as options and the buyer chooses Priority, shouldn't the seller be required to ship Priority (or better) if that's the service chosen and paid for? Wouldn't shipping Media Mail in that case be considered "not as described" even if the seller meets their handling time and/or the estimated delivery date?

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Trinton has stated that the shipping method is not part of the item description. So shipping media mail when the listing specified priority is not SNAD. There is written policy that says otherwise though. 

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Hi @missjen831, can you link me to the written policy on this? There may be a contradiction between my resources and something posted publicly that I am happy to look into for adjustments.

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This one http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/selling-practices.html says, amongst other things that if you offer free shipping you aren’t allowed to use a shipping method that is slower than the slowest method offered. OPs seller offered only free priority. Shipped using a slower service.

[sam9876]

Trinton is going to come back and say that is only a suggestion and not a rule.

[Anonymous]

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@sam9876 wrote:

Trinton is going to come back and say that is only a suggestion and not a rule.

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Hi @sam9876 & @missjen831, I double checked on this and am happy to clarify what I believe is the confusion here; the policy page shared previously is related to our shipping policies. These are listing policies and would not necessarily be eBay Money Back Guarantee guidelines. There are certain expectations we set for site activity or listings that would not define protections within with our eBay Money Back Guarantee. 

That being said, if the seller offers one service that provides a certain estimated delivery date, and then they select a slower service to ship their item, the item would likely arrive late to the buyer. If the item arrives late, the buyer is covered. If the item arrives on time, then there is no protection available for the shipping portion of this transaction. The industry standard through retail when shipping options are available is that the buyer selects a method that will ensure a certain delivery timeframe. Many other businesses do not list the shipping method, only the delivery dates. I bring this up as a comparison to stress that ultimately, the delivery date is the expectation being set and is what we offer protection on.

Additionally, I double made sure to double check on this topic with a policy expert and do need to correct one of my earlier statements - an item would be eligible for eBay Money Back Guarantee protection if it arrives later than the latest estimated delivery date and the buyer no longer wishes to keep the item. While we can protect a seller for late delivery misses as a part of their seller performance if the item was shipped within their stated handling time, even when the shipment occurs within the stated handling time, the buyer would have the option to return the item if it was received after the latest estimated delivery date. There are times when a buyer needs the item before a specific date, and if it does not arrive on time, it does not meet the expectations set in the listing.

An example would be when a buyer needs an item for a wedding gift, the estimated delivery date is the day before the wedding, but the item arrives the day after the wedding. The buyer may have gone out and purchased a different gift locally and the item they bought online is no longer needed. This would be considered a valid return reason as the description of the delivery date proved to be inaccurate.

In short, there can be differences between our eBay Money Back Guarantee policies and other expectations. One example of how these can differ is how we expect Delivery Confirmation to be provided if an item not received request is open, but we do not otherwise require this. You are welcome to list with a shipping method that does not provide tracking, with the understanding that we are unable to offer protection without proof of delivery should the buyer report they did not receive the item. I know that there has been some confusion here related to written policies on the site and how they factor into our eBay Money Back Guarantee. I hope these examples help to clarify these concerns.

[missjen831]

Thank you for clarifying Trinton & for providing a detailed explanation! It does look like the help pages have been updated since I last went over them and the language has changed & reflects most of what you have said 🙂

[laylajames9]

Hi Trinton,

Thanks for the lengthy clarification. To make sure I'm understanding this:

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@Anonymouswrote:

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That being said, if the seller offers one service that provides a certain estimated delivery date, and then they select a slower service to ship their item, the item would likely arrive late to the buyer. If the item arrives late, the buyer is covered. If the item arrives on time, then there is no protection available for the shipping portion of this transaction. The industry standard through retail when shipping options are available is that the buyer selects a method that will ensure a certain delivery timeframe. Many other businesses do not list the shipping method, only the delivery dates. I bring this up as a comparison to stress that ultimately, the delivery date is the expectation being set and is what we offer protection on.

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This is a correction to your previous statement of "the seller needs to meet the handling time and/or estimated delivery date expectations set at purchase". It is not an and/or situation as previously noted. Instead it should read:

The seller needs to meet the estimated delivery or the seller needs to meet both the handling time & estimated delivery. Simply meeting the handling time but missing the estimated delivery is grounds for SNAD IF the shipping method was changed to a slower service by the seller.

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@Anonymouswrote: 

Additionally, I double made sure to double check on this topic with a policy expert and do need to correct one of my earlier statements - an item would be eligible for eBay Money Back Guarantee protection if it arrives later than the latest estimated delivery date and the buyer no longer wishes to keep the item. While we can protect a seller for late delivery misses as a part of their seller performance if the item was shipped within their stated handling time, even when the shipment occurs within the stated handling time, the buyer would have the option to return the item if it was received after the latest estimated delivery date. There are times when a buyer needs the item before a specific date, and if it does not arrive on time, it does not meet the expectations set in the listing.

An example would be when a buyer needs an item for a wedding gift, the estimated delivery date is the day before the wedding, but the item arrives the day after the wedding. The buyer may have gone out and purchased a different gift locally and the item they bought online is no longer needed. This would be considered a valid return reason as the description of the delivery date proved to be inaccurate.

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You're saying if a seller meets their handling time and the item arrives after the estimated delivery provided by eBay that qualifies as a SNAD? Or is that only the case IF the seller changes to a slower shipping method than what's stated in the listing and misses the estimated delivery?

[Anonymous]

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@laylajames9 wrote:

Hi Trinton,

Thanks for the lengthy clarification. To make sure I'm understanding this:

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@Anonymouswrote:

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That being said, if the seller offers one service that provides a certain estimated delivery date, and then they select a slower service to ship their item, the item would likely arrive late to the buyer. If the item arrives late, the buyer is covered. If the item arrives on time, then there is no protection available for the shipping portion of this transaction. The industry standard through retail when shipping options are available is that the buyer selects a method that will ensure a certain delivery timeframe. Many other businesses do not list the shipping method, only the delivery dates. I bring this up as a comparison to stress that ultimately, the delivery date is the expectation being set and is what we offer protection on.

---

This is a correction to your previous statement of "the seller needs to meet the handling time and/or estimated delivery date expectations set at purchase". It is not an and/or situation as previously noted. Instead it should read:

The seller needs to meet the estimated delivery or the seller needs to meet both the handling time & estimated delivery. Simply meeting the handling time but missing the estimated delivery is grounds for SNAD IF the shipping method was changed to a slower service by the seller.

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@Anonymouswrote: 

Additionally, I double made sure to double check on this topic with a policy expert and do need to correct one of my earlier statements - an item would be eligible for eBay Money Back Guarantee protection if it arrives later than the latest estimated delivery date and the buyer no longer wishes to keep the item. While we can protect a seller for late delivery misses as a part of their seller performance if the item was shipped within their stated handling time, even when the shipment occurs within the stated handling time, the buyer would have the option to return the item if it was received after the latest estimated delivery date. There are times when a buyer needs the item before a specific date, and if it does not arrive on time, it does not meet the expectations set in the listing.

An example would be when a buyer needs an item for a wedding gift, the estimated delivery date is the day before the wedding, but the item arrives the day after the wedding. The buyer may have gone out and purchased a different gift locally and the item they bought online is no longer needed. This would be considered a valid return reason as the description of the delivery date proved to be inaccurate.

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You're saying if a seller meets their handling time and the item arrives after the estimated delivery provided by eBay that qualifies as a SNAD? Or is that only the case IF the seller changes to a slower shipping method than what's stated in the listing and misses the estimated delivery?

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Hi @laylajames9, thank you for helping me clarify this! I can confirm that if the item arrives after the latest estimated delivery date, the transaction would qualify as a SNAD. We have protections available for seller performance when the item is shipped within their stated handling time, but would expect them to take a return if the item arrives late even when they did ship the item on time. The delivery timeframe is a priority for most buyers and would warrant a resolution if it was not met. This of course would only be if the buyer contacts you stating they no longer want the product because it arrived late - you can minimize these experiences by communicating with your customer and providing them updates if the shipment looks like it is going to be delayed.

[missjen831]

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@Anonymouswrote:

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@laylajames9wrote:

Hi Trinton,

Thanks for the lengthy clarification. To make sure I'm understanding this:

---

@Anonymouswrote:

---

That being said, if the seller offers one service that provides a certain estimated delivery date, and then they select a slower service to ship their item, the item would likely arrive late to the buyer. If the item arrives late, the buyer is covered. If the item arrives on time, then there is no protection available for the shipping portion of this transaction. The industry standard through retail when shipping options are available is that the buyer selects a method that will ensure a certain delivery timeframe. Many other businesses do not list the shipping method, only the delivery dates. I bring this up as a comparison to stress that ultimately, the delivery date is the expectation being set and is what we offer protection on.

---

This is a correction to your previous statement of "the seller needs to meet the handling time and/or estimated delivery date expectations set at purchase". It is not an and/or situation as previously noted. Instead it should read:

The seller needs to meet the estimated delivery or the seller needs to meet both the handling time & estimated delivery. Simply meeting the handling time but missing the estimated delivery is grounds for SNAD IF the shipping method was changed to a slower service by the seller.

---

@Anonymouswrote: 

Additionally, I double made sure to double check on this topic with a policy expert and do need to correct one of my earlier statements - an item would be eligible for eBay Money Back Guarantee protection if it arrives later than the latest estimated delivery date and the buyer no longer wishes to keep the item. While we can protect a seller for late delivery misses as a part of their seller performance if the item was shipped within their stated handling time, even when the shipment occurs within the stated handling time, the buyer would have the option to return the item if it was received after the latest estimated delivery date. There are times when a buyer needs the item before a specific date, and if it does not arrive on time, it does not meet the expectations set in the listing.

An example would be when a buyer needs an item for a wedding gift, the estimated delivery date is the day before the wedding, but the item arrives the day after the wedding. The buyer may have gone out and purchased a different gift locally and the item they bought online is no longer needed. This would be considered a valid return reason as the description of the delivery date proved to be inaccurate.

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You're saying if a seller meets their handling time and the item arrives after the estimated delivery provided by eBay that qualifies as a SNAD? Or is that only the case IF the seller changes to a slower shipping method than what's stated in the listing and misses the estimated delivery?

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Hi @laylajames9, thank you for helping me clarify this! I can confirm that if the item arrives after the latest estimated delivery date, the transaction would qualify as a SNAD. We have protections available for seller performance when the item is shipped within their stated handling time, but would expect them to take a return if the item arrives late even when they did ship the item on time. The delivery timeframe is a priority for most buyers and would warrant a resolution if it was not met. This of course would only be if the buyer contacts you stating they no longer want the product because it arrived late - you can minimize these experiences by communicating with your customer and providing them updates if the shipment looks like it is going to be delayed.

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@Anonymous So even though the seller isn’t in guAranteed delivery and the delivery estimate is just an estimate, you are saying that if the item arrives late, the buyer can file an SNAD and return for a full refund? And the seller pays for return shipping? Even though they shipped on time using the method specified in the listing? Wow! So if an item is 1 day late, I can stick it to the seller even though delivery wasn’t guaranteed? 

[laylajames9]

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@missjen831wrote:trinton@ebay So even though the seller isn’t in guAranteed delivery and the delivery estimate is just an estimate, you are saying that if the item arrives late, the buyer can file an SNAD and return for a full refund? And the seller pays for return shipping? Even though they shipped on time using the method specified in the listing? Wow! So if an item is 1 day late, I can stick it to the seller even though delivery wasn’t guaranteed? 

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Insane, right? I thought it only applied if the seller changed the shipping to a slower method. Let's hope most buyers will not fall into that category and instead choose to keep their items.

I receive late shipments from retailers all the time and they don't offer free returns or any sort of compensation if the item is late. They certainly don't refund my original ship cost if I return an item, either.

[Anonymous]

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@laylajames9 wrote:

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@missjen831wrote: trinton@ebay So even though the seller isn’t in guAranteed delivery and the delivery estimate is just an estimate, you are saying that if the item arrives late, the buyer can file an SNAD and return for a full refund? And the seller pays for return shipping? Even though they shipped on time using the method specified in the listing? Wow! So if an item is 1 day late, I can stick it to the seller even though delivery wasn’t guaranteed? 

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Insane, right? I thought it only applied if the seller changed the shipping to a slower method. Let's hope most buyers will not fall into that category and instead choose to keep their items.

I receive late shipments from retailers all the time and they don't offer free returns or any sort of compensation if the item is late. They certainly don't refund my original ship cost if I return an item, either.

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Hi @laylajames9, though your may not have had this option with past purchases and I can't speak for the retailers that you purchased from, I have personally been able to return a few items in the past from other companies that arrived late with no cost to me. 

Additionally, @missjen831, we have offered this protection for a number of years and while it is available should a buyer need it, this is not a common case reason as most buyers do seem to want to keep the item.

[hafoster]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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I have personally been able to return [for a full refund] a few items in the past from other companies that arrived late with no cost to me.

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Delivered too late for its intended purpose --

is a standard dispute in the industry.

[e-sister11]

As a new shipper I was struggling to understand how the shipping system worked.

I kept making mistakes in calculations and they weren't in my favor, and I didnt know how to offer more than one method, etc. 

I put Flat Rate on my first listing and then discovered I didn't have the right Flat Rate box. I had ordered some, but they didn't arrive in time. 

So... I shipped them in a different regular box with Priority Shipping because getting there in the Priority time frame seemed more important than losing time procuring the correct box. 

I looked into how to refund the difference to the Buyer, but it looked pretty complicated, like you had to open up some kind of Refund claim- (actually, the buyer had to) so I just chalked it up to Beginner's Learning Curve.

I hope buyers won't always assume the worst about sellers. I didn't want to send a wordy message whining that I'm a newbie. I just moved forward, promising myself to make sure all items have their boxes ready to go before I list the them next time- and I do! Live & learn.

If the buyer had emailed me a "What about that?" message, then I would've asked eBay to help me get him some money back, but I heard nothing back at all. 

On the bright side, I haven't made the same mistake since.

[be_4101]

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@Anonymous wrote:

Additionally, I double made sure to double check on this topic with a policy expert and do need to correct one of my earlier statements - an item would be eligible for eBay Money Back Guarantee protection if it arrives later than the latest estimated delivery date and the buyer no longer wishes to keep the item. While we can protect a seller for late delivery misses as a part of their seller performance if the item was shipped within their stated handling time, even when the shipment occurs within the stated handling time, the buyer would have the option to return the item if it was received after the latest estimated delivery date. There are times when a buyer needs the item before a specific date, and if it does not arrive on time, it does not meet the expectations set in the listing.

An example would be when a buyer needs an item for a wedding gift, the estimated delivery date is the day before the wedding, but the item arrives the day after the wedding. The buyer may have gone out and purchased a different gift locally and the item they bought online is no longer needed. This would be considered a valid return reason as the description of the delivery date proved to be inaccurate.

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Hi @Anonymous my item was delivered 3 days after the latest estimated delivery date. To return the late delivery, which is the reason on this list?

[Anonymous]

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@be_4101 wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

Additionally, I double made sure to double check on this topic with a policy expert and do need to correct one of my earlier statements - an item would be eligible for eBay Money Back Guarantee protection if it arrives later than the latest estimated delivery date and the buyer no longer wishes to keep the item. While we can protect a seller for late delivery misses as a part of their seller performance if the item was shipped within their stated handling time, even when the shipment occurs within the stated handling time, the buyer would have the option to return the item if it was received after the latest estimated delivery date. There are times when a buyer needs the item before a specific date, and if it does not arrive on time, it does not meet the expectations set in the listing.

An example would be when a buyer needs an item for a wedding gift, the estimated delivery date is the day before the wedding, but the item arrives the day after the wedding. The buyer may have gone out and purchased a different gift locally and the item they bought online is no longer needed. This would be considered a valid return reason as the description of the delivery date proved to be inaccurate.

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Hi @Anonymous my item was delivered 3 days after the latest estimated delivery date. To return the late delivery, which is the reason on this list?

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Hi @be_4101, we consider the delivery timeframe to be a part of the description, so you can select Doesn't match description or photos and indicate in your message that this is due to late delivery.