Shipped new..returned destroyed; ebay sided with the buyer

[nulifeorganics]

Well, after almost 20 years buying and selling on ebay, I can't seem to learn my lesson.  I shipped a brand new vacuum to a buyer who requested to return it saying the dirt collecting cannister was cracked (and probably cracked in shipping).   I issued a return label and when I got the machine back it looked like it had vacuumed up a barn.  Honestly.  The cannister was cracked but not from shipping.  It was a stress fracture from someone who tried to remove or replace it but did not read the directions on how to do so.  Every inch of the vacuum was covered in a dust that looked like sheetrock dust.  There were cobwebs (cobwebs???) on the roller and something that certainly looked like a feather.  The cannister was not only cracked and stained but  the plastic had a water ring all the way around it near the top the the plastic below that water mark was actually etched by some chemical or solution.  The buyer never mentioned any of these issues in her request to return and when I contacted her she said she had used it to vacuum her grandmothers rug and the dust had been so thick it filled the air.  (her words).  She denied fluid in the tank.  So, I called ebay and the rep said to send pics and open a case and she would call me back.  She did and after 10 minutes and a discussion with her supervisor, I was told they would find in favor of the buyer and refund her full costs.  The reason was that they could not prove the buyer had created the damage...  "it might have happened in shipping".   I asked if this rep thought it was likely that an agent of the post office had opened the box, used the vacuum to clean out his barn with a bleach solution after a storm, repacked it and sent it off to the buyer who just did not notice that the vacuum had minor prior use?  No response to my question or hint that their assessment did not make any sense whatsoever.

I am wholly sick of ebay's disregard for the seller in situations that any 4 year old could make sense of.  If anyone reads this rant and has had success with ebay as a seller in such a situation I would appreciate any advice.  I do not want to leave ebay, I want to see it fixed so it is fair for both buyer and seller.  Thank you

[everything-from-trinkets-to-treasures]

You cannot prove the buyer damaged anything...just as ebay cannot. You are making guesses for something you did not witness. Of course ebay sided with the buyer...that should not come as a shock.
You cannot just make up things and call them facts.
You should have had it insured then you would not be out the money...insuring items should be something sellers do to protect themselves.

[ed8108]

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@nulifeorganics wrote: I was told they would find in favor of the buyer and refund her full costs.  The reason was that they could not prove the buyer had created the damage...  "it might have happened in shipping".   

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The buyer cannot prove that she did not create the damage, buyer can offer no proof she is being truthful.

The issue is credibility. The standard that could apply after scrunity of all the facts and circumstances that exist within a claim is who is more likely accurate and truthful.

EBay does not use that standard.

[robot-hands]

Nor any standards.

[orangehound]

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@nulifeorganics wrote:

Well, after almost 20 years buying and selling on ebay ...

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This means nothing.   In eBay's policies, a brand new seller with a disposable email address will be believed over you ...

 Unfortunately, eBay does not have a program whereby a seller or buyer can be "trusted" ... I know it makes sense that after X years or Y transactions, that a seller might gain some level of trust, but that's not the case - the naive up-to-50% off bad returns is not a "trust" policy, and it is a policy that can easily get a seller into trouble with PayPal or via a chargeback if used; what's more concerning is that eBay may retroactively punish sellers who do not fully refund returns, like the SNAD policy that we are now encountering.

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@nulifeorganics wrote:

I am wholly sick of ebay's disregard for the seller in situations that any 4 year old could make sense of.  If anyone reads this rant and has had success with ebay as a seller in such a situation I would appreciate any advice.  I do not want to leave ebay, I want to see it fixed so it is fair for both buyer and seller.  Thank you

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The only thing you can do is to appeal the decision.  If you have not had too many prior appeals, and if the item is not too expensive, eBay may give you a "courtesy refund". 

eBay's policies are simply not well crafted to deal with fraud, theft, scams, etc.  eBay has taken control of returns away from sellers, and sellers are expected to bear the cost of all criminal activity.  This is yet another position by eBay that adds to eBay's reputation as a site where there is no consequences for criminal activity ... eBay's policies allow thieves and unethical buyers to operate without consequence.

[*smedley*]

once upon a time ebay was seller-oriented...

those days are LONG gone... ebay realized that sellers rely on the platform so now buyers hold all the cards...

[genv]

The OP is registered since 2008.

The OP has very good feedback.

I believe the OP.

Track Record should count for something.

We can't see the Buyer Feedback.

They all get 100%, even the ones that don't deserve it.

[ajbcc3]

I shipped the wrong RCA amplifier tube by mistake as it looked identical to my untrained eye..i offered a refund by it was no good when I got it back..pictures showed no burned marks on the glass when sent...but I got it back blown with large overheated marks on it..my guess is buyer sent back a blown one he had as the replacemnet

[duggmills]

What? Customer Service found for the buyer?  Oh, how usual.

eBay members don't understand how eBay's customer service works or why it's in some distant land.

eBay contracts with a low bidder to become eBay's so called customer service department (sub-contractor) because it's so very much cheaper than having more eBay employees or be located in America.

eBay gets a monthly report of how many customer service complaints have been registered and how many have been resolved.  eBay doesn't need to know how those cases were resolved or whether it was the buyer or seller who was favored or the amount of money involved.  Why would they need to know that. It's not their money at risk. 

Nor is eBay at any risk over feedback. Only sellers are at rick of negative feedback Knowing sellers can't leave negative feedback only benefits buyers who can turn the screws even harder and pour salt in the wound of sellers.

As long as Customer Service resolves as many cases as possible a month eBay has no reason to be concerned. This assumed they would be concerned.

The job of Customer Service Reps is to resolve issues as fast as possible and with  absolutely no addition effort in their part.  It's not their money either, why would they care?

Every few days or a week we see  cases like this where sellers have been defrauded and with the aid of customer service.   

What does eBay do in cases like this? Nothing. Why would they and who would be charged with the duty of looking into these matters?   No one I'm aware of.

[agent006140]

OP should appeal,reason is that the item returned is no longer in the same condition as sent.

OP should also report the buyer.

This is another case of  Ebay Rental  -rent a tuxedo,designer handbag,printer,ice machine,tools,one buyer even bite into one piece of chocolate,filed INAD and return the rest .

[nickyjohnd]

I feel your pain. After 19 years on Ebay we have gotten 2 return requests in the past month. Both were obviously buyer remorse with lame justification. I am awaiting the arrival of the last one. If it has been damaged by the buyer as I suspect I will be testing the Ebay system. The policies do seem skewed heavily toward the buyer. If the item is damaged I am afraid my experiance will mirror yours. We sell vintage articles and take great pains to describe any and all wear or damage in 50 year old objects. We add multiple photos. We don't want to leave either but we do have options.

[bmp_auto_salvage]

This is why I put tamper evident stickers on EVERYTHING I ship. eBay has become a haven for GARBAGE buyers and since THE RIVER gave so many trash buyers the boot they'll all flock here.

[mikeystoyz]

Was it the same vaccuum you sent?  If not, file mail fraud with the USPS.  You have your original pictures and you have what it looks like now.  If it is the same one you might have to eat there.

[hafoster]

USPS sees 2 unrelated tracking numbers.

We should not extend false hope: There is nothing to investigate.

The OP paid for return shipping and got back a vacuum that sucked.

But as far as the USPS is concerned, they fulfilled the delivery.

What should have been in the package is not fraud.

[mikeystoyz]

Yes, it is, if it is a different vacuum.  If it is the same vacuum, then no.  If the person sent back a different vacuum then they most certainly did.

 In the United States, mail and wire fraud is any fraudulent scheme to intentionally deprive another of property or honest services via mail or wire communication. It has been a federal crime in the United States since 1872.