How to handle a fraudulent return in 2020?

[kristinawilliam]

Sold a set of 4. Buyer received, claimed 1 was broken. No problem, but she starts without reaching out in any civil manner and went straight to leaving negative feedback. No contact, nothing. So I wouldn't have even known there was any issue if I hadn't checked my feedback for updates(and I honestly don't check my feedback daily, maybe twice a week because I'm swamped all-around. 

Okay, I contact the buyer, ask them what they want to do, if they can provide pictures, so on. 

They were just nasty, saying I was implying that they were lying and trying to bait me into a fight of sorts, which I'm not going to fall for it. I sell glassware, things break, so I want to be pleasant and just remedy the situation, all requires communication of sorts. 

So whatever, I'm not worried about any of that stuff. I know people like to hedge their bets on returns, claim sellers poorly packed things and so on, so they establish a rock solid case. I wasn't going to fight any refund, I just wanted communication. Sure, I was mad about their approach, but that's life.

So my question has nothing to do with the backstory portion, just trying to anticipate questions to best handle this situation. 

So now I receive the return. The box is stepped on and destroyed (I have pictures galore). The box felt off, so I weighed it, took a picture of the weight, and it was 12oz lighter than what I shipped out (I kept the receipt from the post office with weight.) So obviously,  the returned package had something removed. 

I open the package, and all 4 items were destroyed. Crushed and destroyed.  Not just something that happened in transit, but this was on purpose.  Originally each item was individually wrapped in bubble, then spacers(also acting as a crush brace) with newspaper padding in between the items. I know this is more than sufficient packing, because aside from mailing similar items hundreds of times before with success, it exceeds the suggested padding put out by all of the major carriers. But opening the package, yep, that is what was missing, 12oz of padding(for other sellers, you know 12oz of padding alone is quite a bit, especially for 4 smaller items.)

So I'm likely going to lose at LEAST 50%, I know that. It's a $22 total sale, postage and item. I really don't care if it's insignificant, the whole pound foolish cliche, etc. I am pursuing this, because if I can't protect myself from these buyers, then what? We go the extra mile to be as transparent as possible, that's WHY we started this side business, so we can be the type of seller we want to be, not just do what everyone else is doing.  I am always motivated to protect honest sellers and go after cheating buyers. 

All rhetorical questions aside, as well as venting aside:

In 2020, with pandemic rules and circumstances changing how things are handled, has anyone had success dealing with fraudulent buyers? I'd love to hear from someone with experience. Like I said, I have pictures, and supporting documents. You would have to be a fool to think this buyer was acting innocently. 

-TYIA, thanks for reading my vent, and thanks for keeping it to the specific question I am asking and trying to help, not feed off my short term frustrations LOL!!!

[paradiso*bella*a*venire · Accepted solution]

Refund the buyer because Ebay will expect you to seeing as you accept returns and  the buyer made the return. Then, report the buyer so that Ebay will have a record of this for the next instance the buyer pulls this. Ebay cant know the buyer is a problem unless they are reported. Then request the negative to be removed. I wouldnt sweat it if it isnt removed because as a buyer, when I read the negative, I could plainly see buyer has no clue what feedback is used for.

Also...Block the snot out of that buyer once its all said and done

[mr_lincoln]

@kristinawilliam   I have switched almost exclusively to Free Returns.  It allows a Seller flexibility in handling a situation like yours.  It means you can refund up to 50% of the original purchase price and non of the original shipping AND it protects you against less then Positive Feedback.

Your Buyer has some real issues, that's for sure and I think it goes beyond one broken glass out of a 4 glass shipment.  it's actually possible that the Buyer dropped the one glass and broke it and then decided to blame you ... stranger things have happened.

If the shipment was insured you could certainly file a claim with the carrier because its a total loss at this point.

[kristinawilliam]

Thanks. I also re-read eBay's guidelines on handling this situation. It says first reach out to the buyer to reach a resolution. So that is exactly what I did, calm and in a professional manner.  Even when frustrated, it's not worth being nasty back at someone. I'll give them a day, follow the steps, refund and seek feedback removal. 

Only speculation, but I believe this buyer bought the item for Easter, once Easter was over, they wanted to force a return. It's a shame the box returned was full of dust (don't breathe this!.... for fans of the Blendtec videos.)

Oh well. Time to test the no-call support system. Wish me luck!

[paradiso*bella*a*venire]

Best  wishes to you in dealing  with this buyer! Dont be shy about coming back and sharing the outcome.....should you feel inclined.  The wonderful sellers on this site deserve to be commended in victory, supported in defeats.  

Try contacting ebay on facebook or twitter. Ive seen people say thats probably the best avenues to use for contacting them

You may be right about the buyer. Its become  well known to the world that Ebay is the place to go for free, rental and switching items. 😔

[kristinawilliam]

Thanks. And as far as updates that may help others searching for a similar answer.

Last bit left is to request feedback removal.

After issuing the refund and adding a comment saying that all of the items were broken upon return, the buyer messaged me that the return was sent the way it was received. But I know that is not true because I weighed the package before opening it for inspection, and it was significantly lighter and my braces were all gone. Plus, I had not shipped out a crushed box.

If the buyer wanted to claim it was crushed when it got to them, then they should have done that upon receipt so we can do the full claim and refund, be done with whatever childish fraud thing they were doing. So even if I wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt to the buyer and just do a quick refund, the buyer put me immediately in a position where I have to defend my feedback and question the claims because they refused to communicate. If the package was inspected at a post office, and they did not repack it correctly or removed some padding because they don't remember how it fit in, I need to know these things. This is only ONE example off the top of my head, and I don't run around thinking it's something that occurs often. 
*Side note. I have only had a repacked post-inspection package once in 10 years. So I know it does happen because I had a RTS package sent back due to a deceased buyer that was inspected and missing these big foam sheets because they were very tricky to pack LOL! But I also know that occurrence is also very rare and not policy at any post office I have dealt with. The deceased buyer in that case never opened the package and luckily the item came back unharmed. If the buyer I am dealing with now claimed packing was missing from the start, I can at least investigate and maybe re-think one of my procedures to make things better at the point of failure.

I'm not sure how the rest is done effectively with feedback, so I'm going to search a bit, get my ducks in a row, and try my best to get this corrected. I never had to deal with feedback removal, and it seems the automated method in pandemic world is even unfavorable for the seller. From what I read, we only have one shot here and are at the mercy of someone who actually stops to investigate the issue due to the demand and shortages of help. Yowzas... 😞

[paradiso*bella*a*venire]

Dont feel let down if you arent able to get that feedback removed right away.  That may take some time since the reps are so few right now.

The research youre doing will sharpen you up for any future occurrences. Thats great you recognize its need. I am very happy for you on the outcome  thus far, and wish you success on that feedback removal!

Stay strong! and stay safe!  I will BOLO for update on that feedback removal  🙂

[paradiso*bella*a*venire]

PS......Thanks for marking my post as the answer...My official first!

My real first was me marking one of my own thread post  hahaha  I know , cheater me   lol

[kristinawilliam]

It was helpful and addressed my issues in my circumstances, not trying to reframe the issue or derail in any way, for that, your answer was excellent. Thanks paradiso! I'm not a newbie to any of this, just unaware of expectations with pandemic era ebay support. 

When I did a refund, I just clicked issue refund and that was it. I didn't submit a partial refund. But it gave the buyer only a refund on the item, not shipping. Funny how when I reach out to communicate with them, they ignore me. But when they need something, they are quick to contact me. This is just a nasty and dishonest person, I honestly don't need this stress in my life. That's why I'm going to ignore them, not to return the favor of how they ignored me, but more I don't want to say anything that can be used against me in the messages. Everything I could do, I did. The last step is still feedback removal, again, I'm going to wait to request everything once I'm confidant I know how this is going to turn out, and not use myself as an experiment to find out. 

[paradiso*bella*a*venire]

Very smart you are. Youre doing all the right things and Im glad you will be ceasing communication with this buyer. Its the best and smartest move to make. Buyers like that feed off conflict and starving the buyer out from any will eventually make it go away

lol  thats for sure...dont be anything's experiment  😉

[kristinawilliam]

An update to this order and situation. 

I submitted the refund to the buyer originally. For whatever reason it only did a half refund, maybe because I reported an issue with the buyer? And that's fine because as mentioned, buyer claimed one was received damaged, they sent all 4 back destroyed. 

Buyer opened another claim. They stated that they took the package to the USPS counter at the post office and USPS does not accept damaged boxes, but that is not always the case, because they don't always see the boxes when they are structurally weakened. And in this case she had removed the inside braces that absorb crushing.  

I have no idea how Ebay will rule here, as I have no way of adding any input to the claim, only submit for the remainder of the refund. Which, I don't see why I should reward a dishonest buyer, and I don't know why Ebay would enable them. 

As far as feedback. I did not need to submit anything, the negative feedback was removed a few days after the original refund was honored. Whether that was due to an angel that viewed this post to help (THANK YOU) or just part of the process, I do not know.

[uwdiver]

>>I have switched almost exclusively to Free Returns.  It allows a Seller flexibility in handling a situation like yours.  It means you can refund up to 50% of the original purchase price and non of the original shipping AND it protects you against less then Positive Feedback.

Could you please clarify this? Where could I learn more about this flexibility?  I'm looking at the links from my Business Policies page but not finding any reference to what you are saying here?  Thank you.

[edwedw8383]

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@uwdiver wrote:

>>I have switched almost exclusively to Free Returns.  It allows a Seller flexibility in handling a situation like yours.  It means you can refund up to 50% of the original purchase price and non of the original shipping AND it protects you against less then Positive Feedback.

Could you please clarify this? Where could I learn more about this flexibility?  I'm looking at the links from my Business Policies page but not finding any reference to what you are saying here?  Thank you.

---

You don't have to switch to free returns, just 30-or-more-days returns and have a top-rated status. Here's the link:

Up to 50% refund deduction for decreased value on used or damaged returns 

And @kristinawilliam, that feedback was automatically removed because of the above.

[vegaverb]

I'm quitting eBay after this, to many buyers ripping me off during Covid. not worth it anymore.

[kristinawilliam]

I don't get many buyers trying to rip me off on eBay lately. But I sure am set up defensively to prevent fraudulent claims, and eBay has also established mechanisms as well that mostly work. Other platforms that I am on have a mixed bag, I don't consider eBay any worse, as this is not a platform problem, but a human ethics problem in general. At least on eBay, my seller protections are consistent. Opposed to something sold on a marketplace that rhymes with 'Atari', I have been stuffed in 4 of the 5 cases that I had to deal with in the last 2 years where I could easily see the claims were false. The River-one is by far and away the worst with fraud, but you can move more inventory quicker in general(but not everyone and all product categories).