Free Returns

[plumbingspecials]

I had a conversation with an eBay rep yesterday who called me to tell me (once again) about the free returns program, and how this wonderful program can boost sales by 15 percent, according to some data that was most likely manipulated to get people to believe that sales = profits.

I feel really bad because by the end of the conversation, she was trembling, perhaps even in tears, and that was certainly not my intention. The poor girl was just doing the job she was hired to do, reading a script that she was told to read, and to try to convince Top Rated Sellers that it's okay to be extorted by eBay. I hope she did not take my feedback about eBay personally, but I really think it was her first day. I explained to her that this move by eBay is opening a whole new channel for thieves. Now they can search by "free returns" so they can target sellers who offer this program. Thieves know they can get items for free or for at least 50% off. There is no way a seller can make a profit with this strategy. There is no honor among thieves, and if eBay truly believes members are always honest, they are sadly optimistic. As it is now, most returns are FALSE SNAD cases (in other words, the buyer LIES to avoid shipping and restocking fees), so let's just make it easier for them by removing the step where they have to lie to return something for free (yep, that will make them honest!). The rep excitedly tells me that if the item is returned in any other condition than we sent it, we are allowed to keep 50% of the sale and refund only 50% instead of having to refund the full transaction. After four reports of buyers misuing the free returns system, eBay will give them warning. So they get to rip off at least FOUR sellers before eBay shuts them down.  (Yep, again that's keeping them honest!)

I reiterated to the rep that eBay is cheating us out of our TRS benefits by forcing us to take losses on our sales. If we do not conform to this ridiculously unprofitable policy, we do not get our benefits on those listings. So, If I sell an item for $1000, the buyer requests a return and sends back a box of rocks, I get to keep 50% of the sale IF I CAN PROVE that I sent out the correct item. I do not get a discount on my final value fees because it's only a partial refund, but hey, at least eBay put our TRS badge on that item.

So to put this in perspective:

I have a unit that I paid 700 for (because I am adistributor).

I sell the unit for $1000. I pay shipping $25. Buyer requests return, I pay another 25 plus call tagf fee of 16, so it costs 41 to bring it back. I receive a box of rocks, the buyer keeps the unit, and I get to keep half of the refund because the buyer didn't send back the same unit.  Here's what it looks like:

1000-100 (fvf)=900

900-25 (shipping)=875

875-700(cost of unit)=175

At this point I made a profit of 175 (sounds good, right?)

Oh but wait. The buyer requests a return (no reason is needed).

175 (what I initially made) - 41 (return shipping and call tag)=134

Buyer ships back box of rocks instead of a unit that I can re-sell.

134-500(partial refund for scam buyer)= -366

This transaction would cost ME $366 to receive something back other than what i sold.. Not sure how eBay expects people to sell here if we are not profitting or at least breaking even. 

I suppose the rep who called me NEVER SOLD A THING ON eBay! Because not one person who ever has, would agree that this is a "good" program for sellers. I think she realized that after I schooled her.

I still feel really bad though, because she honestly thought she was promoting a good program. 

[mr_lincoln]

I'm giving it a try on lighter wieght - lower cost items which equated to over 50% of my listings on 2 IDs.

[vintagecraze50]

I buy alot of shoes online, because the brand I love is usually a lot cheaper than people can sell at our local stores. I actually paid more for a pair of shoes on Zappos once becuase of two things. One, they do a really good virtual kind of reality thing with the shoes with a model and actually showing the shoes held by a person displaying them. Two, becuase their return policy was better and with shoes they gotta fit right and if they do not you have to return them. I guess my point is, the better your product looks from all standpoints, includind free ship back, sometimes people will pay more and buy more because of it. Return more absolutely. I am sure Zappos has that all figured into their prices. Yes, they sell high volume, and they are a big player, but small sellers can figure a plan as well to control for costs.

[vintagecraze50]

Good plan. I wish you well and I wish everyone on the post the best possible outcome whether they choose to use free returns or not. It's scary, I know. 

[mr_lincoln]

Yes, its scary on a certain level.  However, I think in the area of collectibles all the new programs have little affect on search results.  Last week I put an item up for sale and it was the only one of its kind at the time.  So, even if 5 other people put one up for sale we would ALL get returned in search  (would be my guess).  So I think some of the new programs are geared more for new products and the alleged drop in visibility for those who don't join in may or may not be true ... anyway, we'll see what happens.

If sales on those items do not accelerate or if I suddenly I get more returns of those items then I discontinue my involvement ... but it will take a little time to see if it works or not.

[partsgalore1]

When ever a buyer claims not as described, I ask for pictures to show what exactly is different from my listing. Liars never send pictures and usually never return the item because they know I'm going to fight them. Ebay has, on most occasions, sided with me if they refuse to send pictures. My biggest problem is buyers who misdiagnose their problem and then claim my item is defective when it doesn't fix their issue. Items that are prone to this problem such as Electronic parts and Carburetors... I have a no return policy....however, in my item description I state that I will accept returns. My rule is clear and simple, items that are indeed defective will be refunded in full including all shipping costs. Items that are returned not defective will only get the item cost refunded (no shipping costs will be refunded). This has worked well for me so far. As for me 30 day free return listings... I have not had a single return yet... time will tell if this is going to work out. I have not had any noticable change in sales for either my no return items or my free return items.

[mr_lincoln]

Anyone having any success with Free Returns increase in Sales?

[mynewfindstore]

Our sales at first increased a bit, then this past week they went DOWN quite a bit.....and to top it off, this weekend was the WORST since 2013 when we first opened the store (we used to do just auctions without a store in 2012).  We are even listing new items on a regular basis but do not have any help now since we can no longer afford to pay anyone.  It's just my daughter and I doing it now.  She relies on this income since she has health problems.  Now I also have health problems so this business used to be good for us.  I am not sure what is going on.  When our promotion actually was visible to buyers we were doing ok.  I will probably be talking off the free returns on most everything.....

[mr_lincoln]

@richards*rock*collection

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@richards*rock*collection wrote:
In reply to Mr. Lincoln; This is just them admitting to positive proof of throttling, a confession if you will.

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I agree that throttling, or whatever one wants to call it, is being done.  I think it is less prevalent in antique and collectible categories since there are fewer items to return in search.  They may also be able to do it on an account basis, meaning an ID gets its turn in the barrel and very few items get returned in search.  I will however acknowledge that in the UA there is a statement that says, in so many words, that not all of ones items will be visible all the time ... or something to that effect.

[auctionsrva]

Interesting.  Here is a link to a report on how Ebay is performing as a whole, 2017 over 2016:  

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/ebay-inc-reports-fourth-quarter-and-full-year-2017-results-...

I didn't dive to deep, assuming other periods are available at the same site.  I haven't looked closely at this data yet so I draw no conclusions from it.  Over time it may give some insight.

[wfhound]

Dear eBay,
This new policy just backfired on you. I cannot afford to offer free shipping. So, since I won't be getting a TRS discount, I just changed my return policy on everything from 30 days to 14. Thinking of going to no returns.
Free returns are industry standard? Are you kidding? Maybe you should check with Amazon, QVC, LL Bean, Home Shopping, Etsy, Eddie Bauer ...

[samyscamerainc]

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@partsgalore1 wrote:

LMAO....  Strange that my sales are down 25% since same time last year.... and I have done everything they suggested....

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We've had the same issue. I added the "guaranteed delivery" option they are pushing and found that as soon as it became activated our sales plummeted. I've since removed it, sales went back up. There was a strange programming "algorithm" they were using that would not allow me (logged on to my personal account) to see the eBay store for the company.

Fairly certain the "free returns" you will get more sales algorithm is also messing with things- sales were up but only becuase they offered a site wide discount of 20% last Thursday. Then a 10% discount. As soon as those ended, so did the sales, when typically our daily average is decent on a normal day.

[plumbingspecials]

@ mr_lincoln
"Anyone having any success with Free Returns increase in Sales?"
No, last weekend sales jumped a little from the first weekend, but this weekend is again half of what is "normal" for my store. And a couple of return requests have been opened this month. So, this FR policy has not really helped me. It has actually hurt some.

[plumbingspecials]

@wfhound
They also took away the 14-Day return policy. Isn't that just peachy? So, even though it's still there in business policies, you cannot use it. We can offer no returns, or 30- and 60- day returns.
It's insane. I feel the same way that our TRS benefits really mean nothing now, nothing to try for. Unfortunately, my OCD will not allow me to not do my best. Grrrr

[vestabond]

The reply I got from a rep was this free return shipping was so they could be more competitive. I simply started laughing. against who amazon? The reason why Amazon has free return shipping is that their Prime members pay for a membership. There is no membership cost on eBay, therefore this will only create another expense for the sellers here on eBay just to be in this "top rated status" lowering our profit margin even more while eBay and Paypal still get there cut from every sale and not taking a loss. If this continues I don't see eBay lasting much longer nor do I plan to keep selling on this inferior platform.

[plumbingspecials]

I agree that eBay will not last long. I think that is the reason, so they can go under, declare bankruptcy and restructure the entire company, of course, at sellers' expense.