Free Returns

[plumbingspecials]

I had a conversation with an eBay rep yesterday who called me to tell me (once again) about the free returns program, and how this wonderful program can boost sales by 15 percent, according to some data that was most likely manipulated to get people to believe that sales = profits.

I feel really bad because by the end of the conversation, she was trembling, perhaps even in tears, and that was certainly not my intention. The poor girl was just doing the job she was hired to do, reading a script that she was told to read, and to try to convince Top Rated Sellers that it's okay to be extorted by eBay. I hope she did not take my feedback about eBay personally, but I really think it was her first day. I explained to her that this move by eBay is opening a whole new channel for thieves. Now they can search by "free returns" so they can target sellers who offer this program. Thieves know they can get items for free or for at least 50% off. There is no way a seller can make a profit with this strategy. There is no honor among thieves, and if eBay truly believes members are always honest, they are sadly optimistic. As it is now, most returns are FALSE SNAD cases (in other words, the buyer LIES to avoid shipping and restocking fees), so let's just make it easier for them by removing the step where they have to lie to return something for free (yep, that will make them honest!). The rep excitedly tells me that if the item is returned in any other condition than we sent it, we are allowed to keep 50% of the sale and refund only 50% instead of having to refund the full transaction. After four reports of buyers misuing the free returns system, eBay will give them warning. So they get to rip off at least FOUR sellers before eBay shuts them down.  (Yep, again that's keeping them honest!)

I reiterated to the rep that eBay is cheating us out of our TRS benefits by forcing us to take losses on our sales. If we do not conform to this ridiculously unprofitable policy, we do not get our benefits on those listings. So, If I sell an item for $1000, the buyer requests a return and sends back a box of rocks, I get to keep 50% of the sale IF I CAN PROVE that I sent out the correct item. I do not get a discount on my final value fees because it's only a partial refund, but hey, at least eBay put our TRS badge on that item.

So to put this in perspective:

I have a unit that I paid 700 for (because I am adistributor).

I sell the unit for $1000. I pay shipping $25. Buyer requests return, I pay another 25 plus call tagf fee of 16, so it costs 41 to bring it back. I receive a box of rocks, the buyer keeps the unit, and I get to keep half of the refund because the buyer didn't send back the same unit.  Here's what it looks like:

1000-100 (fvf)=900

900-25 (shipping)=875

875-700(cost of unit)=175

At this point I made a profit of 175 (sounds good, right?)

Oh but wait. The buyer requests a return (no reason is needed).

175 (what I initially made) - 41 (return shipping and call tag)=134

Buyer ships back box of rocks instead of a unit that I can re-sell.

134-500(partial refund for scam buyer)= -366

This transaction would cost ME $366 to receive something back other than what i sold.. Not sure how eBay expects people to sell here if we are not profitting or at least breaking even. 

I suppose the rep who called me NEVER SOLD A THING ON eBay! Because not one person who ever has, would agree that this is a "good" program for sellers. I think she realized that after I schooled her.

I still feel really bad though, because she honestly thought she was promoting a good program. 

[plumbingspecials]

Oops! A mathematical error! My TRS discount of 10% was not considered in my FVF. So I only took a loss of 356 bucks! Yay! The badge and discount benefits only cost $356 for that listing! WooHoo!

[orangehound]

I think this program was created by a bunch of eBay Jr. Executives that were either drunk or high or both, and whose only experience in retail was buying mods for their COD characters.  Trying to kill two birds with one stone?  You don't solve the (a) crime on eBay and (b) needing to get free returns with a single program.   Seriously?

Crime?  If you want to solve crime on eBay, then give power/authority to the sellers (or at least a category of trained, authorized sellers) to make the judgment calls so as to cut this activity off at the source ... no store in America gives a refund if you show a receipt for an iPhone and hand over a bag of rocks.  Train us to do customer service the way you want it ... certify us ... give us authority ...

Free returns?   If eBay wants free returns to be common here just like they claim is done by the "industry standard" (I guess they are imagining it is Amazon), then I don't see why they don't pay for the return like Amazon.  If eBay paid for the return out of their profits instead of mine, then I would have no problem with free returns.

Yet, rather than doing something that makes sense, they create a Frankenstein Policy of "up to 50%" held back ... that will tick off both sellers and buyers.  Horrible drunk, high thinking. 

[plumbingspecials]

It's insane. I have been asking anyone at eBay how this makes sense for Top Rated Sellers. Nobody can give me an explanation except "It increases sales by 15%". They fail to admit that it also increases losses by 50%. There is no incentive. We do not get our TRS benefits, again no incentive.
That's some fuzzy math, there. I cannot fathom that any shareholder could believe this is good for eBay shares, to penalize those paying the fees. I think they are trying to bankrupt the company - sabotage at our expense.

[samyscamerainc]

I listened to the Free Returns webinar. Was a waste, the only good thing that came from it were the question everyone asked.

When I asked if they would provide the questions for review later, it was a firm no. So, I copied and pasted every question asked to review later and then "re-asked" merchant support. They are notorious for not providing consistent information.

Due to EU requirements, we are no longer selling GSP/Internationally.  With the new "free returns" program, they have no way to allow two policies. So if you offer GSP / International, if your buyer starts a return, you have to pay to have the item sent back. While we have very few return requests internationally, it's not a cost we want to absorb.

Was told we should absorb these losses within the products we sell...  😕  Can't really do that in Camera & Photo.

When asked if there were step-by-step on the "proper way" to set up the account, they said to call!! Which means they don't have one.

They refuse to be clear about the policies and what categories are REQUIRED to change to 30 day free.

     1. Told we are required to change to 30 day free returns (if you want any ability to charge a fee for buyer abuse).

    2. Told restocking fee option is being completely removed.

After the webinar I emailed merchant support with all the questions and answers that were unclear.

   1. Told no we are NOT required to change to 30 day free returns.

  2. Told we could have the 14 day return policy.

  3. Restocking fee options are not being removed from Camea & Photo

I've modified the business polices for the 30day free return and will check June 1 to see if we still ahve the option for restocking, if we do - it's getting changed back.

!@#@#%@#$^%! = my current frustration level with eBay and lack of understanding that they are a platform ....NOT a retail store or a seller.

[richardwillardcollection]

I have received no info about this, I do not offer free returns on any thing at this time, but 30 day returns for any reason I do offer, but no ones ever returned anything to me, so I was wondering why all the excitement? Is every one saying here that ebay will make us give free returns soon? I thought the option would be no returns, or returns 30 day buyer pays return shipping. If I needed a faucet, I would take my old one to jerrys and buy a new one, I am the average home do it yourselfer, I wouldn't try to steal a faucet from ebay......much ado about nothing it sounds like, why is every one so excited? If you do thousands of dollars worth of sales a week is it not expected to be ripped off some time? I do 50 dollars a week and have been ripped off a couple of times in 4 years, good luck to you guys, I think you should have your own web sites to sell your things because your big sellers, ebay sounds not right for you, but ok, keep trying, good luck, I hope you are able to change ebay policy for the better, thanks for posting this info.

[orangehound]

---

@richardwillardcollection wrote:
I have received no info about this, I do not offer free returns on any thing at this time, but 30 day returns for any reason I do offer, but no ones ever returned anything to me, so I was wondering why all the excitement? Is every one saying here that ebay will make us give free returns soon?

---

It was in the 2018 Spring Seller Update.

Unless you offer free return shipping, your listing will no longer have the Top Rated Seller Plus badge, and you won't get the 10% TRS discount.  This doesn't apply to eBay Motors listings.

[richardwillardcollection]

oh, ok, at this time I have the badge, but thats good to know, maybe ebay will change their mind, again. Ebay without the 10 percent discount and the badge is not so bad, not bad enough to offer free returns, that could get spendy if people start sending things back, but we will see....I might be willing to try this free returns thing because I have so little returns, as far as being scammed, ebay so far has stood behind me and trusted me, so I think if someone scammed me ebay would make good on it, people who buy a box of rocks from me are very honest so far, thanks for all the info.

[plumbingspecials]

Only listings that conform to eBay TRS+criteria will have the badge. Currently it's one-day handling and 30-Day returns. Beginning in June it will be one-day handling and 30 Day FREE returns to get the TRS+ benefits. It's policy extortion, and it's unethical to force us into this to get our benefits for something we earned. eBay is allowing buyers to search by "free returns", and this will draw out abusive members. Honest members are not worried about returning anything they truly intend to buy. I would not advise this on anything that can't be shipped first class mail. Returns on UPS shipments is at least 16 more on top of the weighted cost of the shipment.
Also, eBay keeps track of the percentage of your returns (and even though it might not be your fault, it looks as though it is, and you will get notifications from eBay stating that you "should revise your listings to be more accurate of the item's description").
This free returns policy can be disastrous for some sellers, and the Top Rated Sellers are going to hurt from it the most.
I'm upset that I've worked so hard to BE a TRS for so long, and eBay treats that as if it means nothing to them, until you don't conform to profitless policies, then they penalize you by taking it all away.

[calistas_closet33]

it’s hopeless, and even if you do not do free returns they will for you. It’s not a good idea to depend on sales here anymore. I saw it was getting bad and scaled back, took a job..now it’s hopeless and I’m canceling orders if buyer looks suspicious and removed free shipping and raised prices to absorb risk while phasing out. I wish mercari had easier listing tool, because it’s less expensive and easier than dealing with the **bleep** here.

[partsgalore1]

I switched all my listing to free retruns but I've had second thoughts. Today I had a nice guy ask for a return for an item he admitted buying by mistake. The item costs $34 with free shipping... shipping costs $12.45 (med. priority flat rate) ... if I had free returns on this item I'll lose $24.90 on an item I make only $5 or so profit on. I'd have to sell  5 more just to recover the loss before I could make any profit. I struggle as it is to earn enough to justify my time and effort selling on eBay. I cannot allow this to happen. At the same time I want to see if free returns actually do help boost sales...so I have decided to offer free returns on only small items that ship by first class mail. All heavy or large items will be set at 30 day buyer pays returns. I should mention that if I make a mistake that is responcible for the return I always pay all costs. No one will ever suffer a loss due to a mitake I made... I expect the same from my buyers. If free returns boost sales significantly I'll consider testing it one larger items. If it does not or if it increases losses from excess returns I will consider setting eBay returns to  "no returns" and add my own "simple returns policy" to all of my listings. Without being alarmist about the free return policy...I will keep an open mind and hope that it will actually help boost my profits.  Bottom line is the amount I earn on eBay, if this policy hurts me more than it helps I'll drop it like a hot potato. If I gain enough sales to justify the occasional loss I'll accept it. Whatever happens.. I'll post the results here... Good luck everyone....

[richardwillardcollection]

Just to let every one know, I went to mostly free returns and did not notice any increase in sales, but this is relative to what I sell and the price I set. I see every one will have to conform if they want the discount in commission fees and display the trs badge, I am not so far impressed but I don't sell that many items either, I'm lucky if I get 4 sales a month, but some months have been better than others, I'm a hobby seller and that's pretty much what I always will be, just trying to support my hobby and get a little extra spending cash.

[n2knowledge]

****Unless you offer free return shipping, your listing will no longer have the Top Rated Seller Plus badge, and you won't get the 10% TRS discount. ****

Well, in the last month - now I am up to 5 returns - Changed Mind, Does Not Match my......, Not my style.....

After This month's listings end - I am so out of here.

[richardwillardcollection]

I was looking at your stuff, very cool stuff. Well, that must have cost you some money paying for those returns. I think your items are prone to being returned because people do not consume them, they are items you look at, mmm, this is a problem I see for you, while most of my items are consumables that the customer generally has plans to cut them into pieces, then they can not return to me a damaged item, so, yes, I can see how you are frustrated, maybe you should just stick to the 14 day buyer pays return shipping, or no returns, and raise your prices accordingly, your competition should have to do the same, I hope you stay, don't leave.

[partsgalore1]

Quick update: I sell electronic parts and carburetors which are often misdiagnosed... so I get inexperienced "mechanics" who use my parts to test their machine... when the part does not solve their problem (because something else is wrong) ...they claim defect! I also have people who can't or won't read my description who buy the wrong parts. For this reason I have set all stators, CDI boxes and carburetors to "NO RETURNS" If they claim defect they must send the item back on their dime so it can be tested. If the item is good and can be resold, I'll refund the cost of the part, no shipping refunds! If the item is bad I pay a full refund including shipping costs. Most of my customers are the best! ..but I must protect myself from the dishonest and illiterate people. .... OK... the point of all this is; I was concerned this would hurt sales more than it prevents loss, however, yesterday I sold 4 stators and one carburetor. I rarely sell 4 stators in one day so it doesn't seem the no return policy had any affect. There's no way to know if people just don't pay attention to my return policy or they don't care because my reputation and history on eBay tells them they don't have to worry? Bottom line... if my no return policy saves me just one dishonest return a month it's worth losing my TR badge and the 10%.