Free Returns

[plumbingspecials]

I had a conversation with an eBay rep yesterday who called me to tell me (once again) about the free returns program, and how this wonderful program can boost sales by 15 percent, according to some data that was most likely manipulated to get people to believe that sales = profits.

I feel really bad because by the end of the conversation, she was trembling, perhaps even in tears, and that was certainly not my intention. The poor girl was just doing the job she was hired to do, reading a script that she was told to read, and to try to convince Top Rated Sellers that it's okay to be extorted by eBay. I hope she did not take my feedback about eBay personally, but I really think it was her first day. I explained to her that this move by eBay is opening a whole new channel for thieves. Now they can search by "free returns" so they can target sellers who offer this program. Thieves know they can get items for free or for at least 50% off. There is no way a seller can make a profit with this strategy. There is no honor among thieves, and if eBay truly believes members are always honest, they are sadly optimistic. As it is now, most returns are FALSE SNAD cases (in other words, the buyer LIES to avoid shipping and restocking fees), so let's just make it easier for them by removing the step where they have to lie to return something for free (yep, that will make them honest!). The rep excitedly tells me that if the item is returned in any other condition than we sent it, we are allowed to keep 50% of the sale and refund only 50% instead of having to refund the full transaction. After four reports of buyers misuing the free returns system, eBay will give them warning. So they get to rip off at least FOUR sellers before eBay shuts them down.  (Yep, again that's keeping them honest!)

I reiterated to the rep that eBay is cheating us out of our TRS benefits by forcing us to take losses on our sales. If we do not conform to this ridiculously unprofitable policy, we do not get our benefits on those listings. So, If I sell an item for $1000, the buyer requests a return and sends back a box of rocks, I get to keep 50% of the sale IF I CAN PROVE that I sent out the correct item. I do not get a discount on my final value fees because it's only a partial refund, but hey, at least eBay put our TRS badge on that item.

So to put this in perspective:

I have a unit that I paid 700 for (because I am adistributor).

I sell the unit for $1000. I pay shipping $25. Buyer requests return, I pay another 25 plus call tagf fee of 16, so it costs 41 to bring it back. I receive a box of rocks, the buyer keeps the unit, and I get to keep half of the refund because the buyer didn't send back the same unit.  Here's what it looks like:

1000-100 (fvf)=900

900-25 (shipping)=875

875-700(cost of unit)=175

At this point I made a profit of 175 (sounds good, right?)

Oh but wait. The buyer requests a return (no reason is needed).

175 (what I initially made) - 41 (return shipping and call tag)=134

Buyer ships back box of rocks instead of a unit that I can re-sell.

134-500(partial refund for scam buyer)= -366

This transaction would cost ME $366 to receive something back other than what i sold.. Not sure how eBay expects people to sell here if we are not profitting or at least breaking even. 

I suppose the rep who called me NEVER SOLD A THING ON eBay! Because not one person who ever has, would agree that this is a "good" program for sellers. I think she realized that after I schooled her.

I still feel really bad though, because she honestly thought she was promoting a good program. 

[mr_lincoln]

Update here ... 3 items ahve sold with Free Returns ... my guess is that I will know in a week or so if any are coming back ...

[auctionsrva]

Good post.  I won't be opting in.  All of this plus my recent experience with how Ebay customer service handled a bogus SNAD return has left me with no enthusiam for selling on Ebay at all.  Too bad because before this most recent policy change I was pretty positive about Ebay.  Still evaluating but most likely won't be selling on Ebay in the future. 

I'm looking at other channels, Bonanza being one.

[thetravelingtreasures]

AMEN!!!!

[partsgalore1]

Good post ... total agreement from me...

This is part of the reason I have choosen not to use free returns on any of my high risk items.

TRS benefits have become so weak (for the reasons you mentioned) that their loss is nearly irrellavent. So far... I have not noticed any impact on sales from the items that do not have free returns. I am still considering moving all my items to "buyer pays return shipping" ... time will tell.

eBay is trying to tell us that buyers will be attacted to items with free returns and our sales will improve. My question is, what kind of buyer want free returns? Perhaps they are the kind of buyer who costs us more than their worth? Perhaps buyers who search for free returns are the thorn in our side that we all dread and are happy to lose? Perhaps not offering free returns will help us eliminate the buyers we want to eliminate and is the best way to protect our profits? No free returns = less losses= more profit and less stress?

[mr_lincoln]

@partsgalore1  wrote: " ... eBay is trying to tell us that buyers will be attacted to items with free returns and our sales will improve. ..."

________________________________________________

Yes, that is very very true.  My issue with all that eBay has been trying to tell us is that there is no reference to or sharing of the long term studies performed by neutral 3rd party companies who have done the research to produce the results that subtantiate the claims ... so until such studies are shared with Sellers they do not exist and the claims are false.  The thrust is obviously them trying to offer whatever new feature or function their main competition, Amazon, offers and their choice to take things away from Sellers in an effort to have Sellers use said features is extremely unprofessional.  I make these statements as simple observations without anger or malice, simply observing their method of management and leadership.  I never hesitate to give credit where credit is due but with some of the things they have come up with and their approach to impliment them I am not in agreement.  I will test the latest one, Free Returns, and judge its affect on my items accordingly.  It may or may not work, time will tell.   But seriously, in the last year eBay has said, implied, suggested or however one wants to phrase it, that sales will in crease:

1. 11% if Sellers offer Free Shpping (Fast and Free)

2. 15% if Sellers offer Free Returns

3. 6.7% if Sellers add Best Offer to their listings (meaning selling for LESS)

4. Close deals because items are in carts at the cost of 5% price reduction (meaning sell for LESS)

The total "possible" sales increase percentage of items 1-3 = 32.7% 

The only suggestion for pricing is to lower it.

eBay, I think, needs to be figuring out how to get eBay listed items to show up higher in every brower's search program.   THAT would increase sales.  eBay, I think, needs to offer some of their own $$ for coupons and internet discounts for New Items to compete with Amazon.  Antiques, collectibles, etc. categories would not apply to that but I am okay with that.

[auctionsrva]

Excellent post. The most distressing piece in my view is EBay's handling of a recent SNAD return to me. It was before the end of May when the new policy took effect. My policy was clear and in accord with EBay's policy. I have had only 3 returns in the 10 months I have been back selling on EBay. The first was an honest buyer who made a return because a pair of trousers didn't fit. EBay's automated process worked perfectly-the buyer worked perfectly and just as my policy was designed-the buyer was refunded the cost of the item less 10% restocking and the buyer paid return shipping. A fair deal-buyer got to try the item and returned it in the same condition. Seller (me) had opportunity to make sale which didn't work out but suffered no loss. By the way this buyer lived in a fairly remote part of Minnesota and didn't have to drive 50 miles to try the trousers on, also got a chance to purchase an expensive item in new condition at significantly less than retail.

Next was another honest return, buyer decided they wanted a different model. Again the automated process worked with my return policy, same outcome. I am feeling really good at this point about EBay.

Next I get 2 bogus SNAD returns (miscount by the way 5 returns not 3).

Both were insignificant but I accepted because there was little money involved. To illustrate one of these items I put in my own tool box and use often, functions perfectly. The other I resold and received glowing feedback.

Now we get to the last, a Dell UPS returned SNAD. I got my first notification saying EBay had decided in favor of the buyer and I was to refund the amount paid including outbound shipping and pay for return shipping. I called EBay CSR and on the first call the CSR agreed that it clearly was a remorse return. No exaggeration I called EBay 10 times or more because the automated system was forcing me to make a full refund including shipping both ways and full item price (no restocking fee). In the end EBay paid the return shipping and told me I had to refund item price (no restocking fee) plus outbound shipping. So I was out over $50 dollars on an item that even EBay agreed was clearly correctly described.

This UPS is in my office in fully functional condition right now. I'll add it to my system rather than try to sell it again. Under the free return policy I would be out $87 dollars in shipping and restocking fees and nobody in their right mind would expose their business to that downside to sell an item for $125.00.

More significant to me is the duplicitous way the transition was handled by EBay. This was clearly not handled in accordance with EBay's published policies.

I too am trying to remain fair and objective. I was enthusiast about selling on EBay and felt very positive about EBay before this. But I regard EBay as a partner and ask myself is this the behavior I would accept from any partner? With sadness I know the answer is certainly not. My partner expects we to do what I promise and I expect the same.

What could change my mind? My partner living up to their obligations. If they don't what can the future hold?

[mr_lincoln]

@auctionsrva  Yes, there are many like minded Sellers here and many with good advice for Home Office on how the business should be run.  I like the last part of your post and if you have not read it lately, they actually refere to a Seller and Buyer on a transaction as "Trading partners" AND that they should communicate to resolve issues. 

I too view eBay as my business partner since they are showing the items we have to sell to as much of the world as we choose for a fair price.  There is a reason why I often refer to them as "Home Office", it makes a point.  We have never called them on any of the returns we have processed ... I've read too many threads where a Seller calls Home Office and they wind up closing the claim in the Buyer's favor and in some cases before the claim period ends.  We HAVE called them on other issues a couple of times and those calls were all positive, handled professionally and that inclueds several handled by their offshore support group that they contract.

[auctionsrva]

I just posted this reply in another discussion, thought it was relevant to this as well:  

Good post.  Your situation mirrors mine.  Started selling on Ebay fairly recently (actually returned to selling, I sold quite a lot between 2000 and 2005).  Worked hard to earn the TRS badge.  Have stopped listing new items since this new policy took effect.

The article below is worth reading.  It appeared on Boston.com.  Google LLBean return policy to find a link to it.  I posted only part of the article here.  It goes on to give much more detail including statistics and interviews with LLBean personell.  It was to long to post the entire article here.

FREEPORT, Maine (AP) — L.L. Bean’s generous return policy is going to be a little less forgiving: The company, which has touted its 100 percent satisfaction guarantee for more than a century, is imposing a one-year limit on most returns to reduce growing abuse and fraud.

The outdoor specialty retailer said returns of items that have been destroyed or rendered useless, including some purchased at thrift stores or retrieved from trash bins, have doubled in the past five years, surpassing the annual revenue from the company’s famous boot.

‘‘The numbers are staggering,’’ CEO Steve Smith told The Associated Press. ‘‘It’s not sustainable from a business perspective. It’s not reasonable. And it’s not fair to our customers.’’

L.L. Bean announced Friday that it will now accept returns for any reason only for one year with proof of purchase. It will continue to replace products for manufacturing defects beyond that.

The company is also imposing a $50 minimum for free shipping as part of a belt-tightening that includes a workforce reduction through early retirement incentives and changes in workers’ pension plans.

The Freeport-based company joins a list of other retailers that have been tightened return policies. Outdoors retailer REI, which was once jokingly dubbed Rental Equipment Inc. and Return Everything Inc. because its unlimited returns policy, imposed a one-year restriction five years ago.

Other retailers have been narrowing the window for returns or imposing new conditions.

L.L. Bean’s announcement in a memo to employees and in a letter to customers represents a seismic policy shift for a 106-year-old company that used its satisfaction guarantee as a way to differentiate itself from competitors.

.....................................................................    continue reading on Boston.com

[mr_lincoln]

Weekend update since Free Returns commenced: 

1 of 6 sales on one ID were Free Returns.  This ID avereages 8 - 10 sales per week / weekend.

3 of 7 sales on another ID were Free Returns.  This ID averages 6 - 8 sales per week / weekend.

[annarborwatchcollector]

You'll need to drop the Free Returns to survive.

This push to offer "Free 30 Day Returns" is NOT in the best interest of sellers.

See:

Why Ebay is throwing its BEST Sellers under the Bus?

[hupernikao-7]

For everyone who can not offer free returns.....call ebay. Be sure and get to the Seller Performance people (otherwise you will get someone who is a novice in supporting us)  and ask them to take it (your account) to their manager at their next staff meeting and complain. Ask the rep to name sites that offer free returns no questions asked. Then ask them to take it to the next staff meeting they have. The only way the people that matter that make the decisions will get that one size doesn't always fit all...is if you/we can nicely get a enough reps to promise to take my Top Rated account...show it to your manager and tell them...I will no longer strive for TRS. eBay got it's start based on small sellers. And they continue to leave us behind. I have rolled with every punch trying to view things from their perspective...if we don't have buyers we all fail. But eBay is not other sites....and the biggest does not even do this on MOST items. Management needs to hear it. Often and LOUD.

[thesewingdoll]

I agree this is ridicules... I just revised my listings to comply....But I am seriously just thinking about ditching the Top seller rated status and keeping my normal return policy or eliminating returns completely.... 1 invalid return for one of my nicer collictibles and I lose what the pidly discount of 10% is or the entire month.....Obnoxious new rule that will  probably back fire for Ebay in general.....I see sellers saying goodbye completely for policy changes all the time. Sad really. Like we are not nickled and dimed to death already., 

[grayirongolf]

Don't let these fast talking salesmen with the get rich quick scheme con you into thinking your a partner.

[vintagecraze50]

Yes, correct. If a buyer wants a return they are going to get it regardless of what you have as a return policy.  They will lie and file SNAD cases to get the item shipped back free.  What you have to figure is what type of stuff do you sell? Does your stuff have a high return rate already, does your stuff weigh a ton and cost a fortune to ship? Are you a low volume seller or a high volume seller where lossess can be just a cost of doing business or a complete disaster for your small business.  Can you add the cost of the returns to your items averaged  out across the item to prepare for the loss, and still be able to sell them at the increased price? These are some of the deciding factors in choosing the free ship back option. 

[vintagecraze50]

Yes. LLbean and many others are restricting their return policies due to the enormous losses they have seen. Amazon now almost permanently ends buyers priveledges when they return too much. Seems a serious re thinking of how Ebay will handle this is in order as well, but I believe the way they are handling it with the update is to  allow for the 50 % refund rather the 100% refund,  if you offer the free return option.  A step in the right direction as long as it works. Not sure it will work right now. Gotta see that in action.