eBay

cellit · ‎06-10-2019

there's so much fraud on ebay its crazy..

global shipping buyer (from mexico) claims the box he received (shipped through DHL) was filled with "garbage" - he posts pictures of cheap phone cases and say that's all he received and not the 940$ phone I sent.

1 more fraudulent defect rating for me, yay, ebay will collect extra fees from me because of my high defect rate from fraudulent buyers.

2 months ago when a similar situation happened, (buyer claimed box was empty) they just made me refund the buyer even though global shipping program employees packed and shipped the item. I called to appeal and said that GSP employees wouldn't ship a package if it was empty and they denied the claim.

I really don't know what to do, they're likely going to accept the buyers claim again.

toyshnip · ‎06-10-2019

@jeannicho22 wrote:
@goodluckselling wrote:
@jeannicho22 wrote:
First of all I would stop using the GSP... bad news for sellers, bad news for buyers. Unless of course you claim the package was empty. If buyers from countries you don't ship to want to purchase, they can employ their own freight forwarding service. This BTW, voids their MBG through eBay.
This is absolutely the WORST advice I have seen in the eBay community today. eBay GSP program has protections for sellers once the package arrives at the eBay USA distribution center. Sellers responsibility ends once the GSP accepts the incoming package and also forwards it to its destination.

Good Luck Selling!
The program is SUPPOSED to work that once the GSP accepts the incoming package, the seller's responsibility is over. And yet, as you can see, those protections aren't working. The seller ends up in a finger pointing contest and they are the one that comes up flipping the bill. If a seller ships internationally via the GSP and the buyer claims INAD, the seller is the one who has to flip the bill for return shipping. .

On the other hand, if the buyer utilizes their own freight forwarder, the seller actually only does have the responsibility to get tracking to the freight forwarder. Once the item is accepted there, the seller's responsibility REALLY IS OVER. The buyer loses all their eBay MBG once the item is forwarded. They cannot open an INR and they cannot open an INAD in eBay. If the buyer decides to open a PayPal INAD, the buyer has to flip the bill for return shipping from wherever the item was shipped to.

Can you please now tell me how my advice was the WORST advice you seen in the eBay community today? The GSP is an utter nightmare. Additionally, with all the fees that are added onto the purchase up front, I'm surprised anyone sells anything through the program. Look also at the fact how many buyers end up dissatisfied because their items end up disappearing at the facility and US based sellers find their items being sold by other US based sellers who bought the items at auction here in the US.

Please do tell how wonderful the program is.

That's 5 sellers who seem to know what they're talking about on a regular basis.... and then 1 touting how wonderful it is. Shrugs.

And now ebay wants to have their own fulfillment centers. If they screw up forwarding packages to the international customers, I am not sure how good of a work they will be doing managing complete orders.

jeannicho22 · ‎06-10-2019

@southern*sweet*tea wrote:
@jeannicho22 wrote:
The program is SUPPOSED to work that once the GSP accepts the incoming package, the seller's responsibility is over.

To a degree. The seller is no longer held responsible if an INR case is filed. Nor is the seller held responsible for transit damage.

Empty box is a SNAD claim, and the seller is always responsible for a SNAD claim.

NOT with a freight forwarder. So when was the box empty? Before it hit the GSP center or once it got there? Speaking of empty boxes.... where is Pitney Bowes getting all of those items they are auctioning off? Yes, the protection of INR is there between the seller and Kentucky(?), but has no protection at all if the item really never gets there.

jeannicho22 · ‎06-10-2019

@toyshnip wrote:
@jeannicho22 wrote:
@goodluckselling wrote:
@jeannicho22 wrote:
First of all I would stop using the GSP... bad news for sellers, bad news for buyers. Unless of course you claim the package was empty. If buyers from countries you don't ship to want to purchase, they can employ their own freight forwarding service. This BTW, voids their MBG through eBay.
This is absolutely the WORST advice I have seen in the eBay community today. eBay GSP program has protections for sellers once the package arrives at the eBay USA distribution center. Sellers responsibility ends once the GSP accepts the incoming package and also forwards it to its destination.

Good Luck Selling!
The program is SUPPOSED to work that once the GSP accepts the incoming package, the seller's responsibility is over. And yet, as you can see, those protections aren't working. The seller ends up in a finger pointing contest and they are the one that comes up flipping the bill. If a seller ships internationally via the GSP and the buyer claims INAD, the seller is the one who has to flip the bill for return shipping. .

On the other hand, if the buyer utilizes their own freight forwarder, the seller actually only does have the responsibility to get tracking to the freight forwarder. Once the item is accepted there, the seller's responsibility REALLY IS OVER. The buyer loses all their eBay MBG once the item is forwarded. They cannot open an INR and they cannot open an INAD in eBay. If the buyer decides to open a PayPal INAD, the buyer has to flip the bill for return shipping from wherever the item was shipped to.

Can you please now tell me how my advice was the WORST advice you seen in the eBay community today? The GSP is an utter nightmare. Additionally, with all the fees that are added onto the purchase up front, I'm surprised anyone sells anything through the program. Look also at the fact how many buyers end up dissatisfied because their items end up disappearing at the facility and US based sellers find their items being sold by other US based sellers who bought the items at auction here in the US.

Please do tell how wonderful the program is.

That's 5 sellers who seem to know what they're talking about on a regular basis.... and then 1 touting how wonderful it is. Shrugs.
And now ebay wants to have their own fulfillment centers. If they screw up forwarding packages to the international customers, I am not sure how good of a work they will be doing managing complete orders.

I was reading about the surveys that are going out the other day. All I could think was... OH MY SWEET LAWD, you've got to be kidding.

southern*sweet*tea · ‎06-10-2019

Buyers still have the MBG when they buy through GSP since it is an Ebay program. If a buyer uses their own forwarder, the Ebay MBG is void. That is not the case for Paypal.

This is what Ebay says. Note they protect the seller from lost or broken during the int'l portion, nothing more.

https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/shipping-items/setting-shipping-options/global-shipping-program?id...

Benefits of the Global Shipping Program

More info

Besides making your items available worldwide, there are a number of benefits to using the Global Shipping Program:

If an item is lost or broken during international shipping, eBay Money Back Guarantee cases will be resolved in your favour, and your seller performance standards won’t be affected
When you provide free domestic shipping to the shipping center, you’ll automatically receive 5 stars for shipping costs in your detailed seller rating
- If you charge for domestic shipping to the shipping center but receive a rating below 5 stars for shipping costs, it won't count against your seller performance standards
You’ll automatically receive 5 stars for shipping time in your detailed seller rating when you ship with same business day or 1 business day handling, upload tracking information within 1 business day of receiving payment, and deliver the item to the US shipping center within 4 business days
Any negative or neutral feedback that can be attributed to the Global Shipping Program from item handling during international transit will be removed

The easier you are to offend the easier you are to control.

We seem to be getting closer and closer to a situation where nobody is responsible for what they did but we are all responsible for what somebody else did. - Thomas Sowell

jeannicho22 · ‎06-10-2019

@southern*sweet*tea wrote:
Buyers still have the MBG when they buy through GSP since it is an Ebay program. If a buyer uses their own forwarder, the Ebay MBG is void. That is not the case for Paypal.

This is what Ebay says. Note they protect the seller from lost or broken during the int'l portion, nothing more.

https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/shipping-items/setting-shipping-options/global-shipping-program?id...

Benefits of the Global Shipping Program
More info
Besides making your items available worldwide, there are a number of benefits to using the Global Shipping Program:
If an item is lost or broken during international shipping, eBay Money Back Guarantee cases will be resolved in your favour, and your seller performance standards won’t be affected
When you provide free domestic shipping to the shipping center, you’ll automatically receive 5 stars for shipping costs in your detailed seller rating
If you charge for domestic shipping to the shipping center but receive a rating below 5 stars for shipping costs, it won't count against your seller performance standards
You’ll automatically receive 5 stars for shipping time in your detailed seller rating when you ship with same business day or 1 business day handling, upload tracking information within 1 business day of receiving payment, and deliver the item to the US shipping center within 4 business days
Any negative or neutral feedback that can be attributed to the Global Shipping Program from item handling during international transit will be removed

Yup... that is exactly what I said. Buyers do have the eBay MBG when ordering through the GSP but not through their own private freight forwarder. If utilizing their own private freight forwarder, they can still file an INAD through PayPal and be covered, but they have to pay return shipping from wherever it was shipped to.

The only benefit for sellers utilizing the GSP is some mumbo jumbo about broken or lost item after they leave the facility. What about the broken or lost items that happen at the facility and end up at some auction? If the box really was empty when it hit the facility, why on earth would the GSP facility forward an empty box?

gramophone-georg · ‎06-11-2019

@orangehound wrote:
@dtexley3 wrote:
My understanding is that by using your GSP program the seller should be PROTECTED when this type of claim is made.
I didn't think a seller was protected from all SNADs ... off the top of my head, the only added protection I thought was granted through the GSP is (a) damaged shipments and (b) lost or not delivered shipments.

If the buyer got an empty box, that empty box had to come from the GSP folks in Erlanger. Why would GSP re- ship an empty box- TWICE now?

Chaos is NOT an "industry standard".

tunicaslot · ‎06-11-2019

Tagging - I'm sure GSP employees do not open every box to see what is in it and why some international buyer indeed have real claims of SNADs. People already complain when a box has been opened and repacked and the item arrives damaged - now you all want very box opened for verification. They are a forwarding company only - not a verification station that what is in the box is real, in the condition stated ect.. They hold no responsibility for SNADs unless a item was repacked and a part left out of the shipment.

I used GSP for years and never had a problem - I then started doing my own international shipping last year. For those afraid to ship internationally - GSP is a good solution for them. It's more the items the OP is selling than the fact they used GSP. It's hard enough to fight an SNAD here in the states let alone trying to do it internationally.

tkinnebrew · ‎06-11-2019

stinks that this happened to you. be careful... if they get u once they will try again and again. fear nothing but prepare for everything and you'll be fine 🙂

coolections · ‎06-11-2019

@ittybitnot wrote:
The problem I see here is that the "empty box" claim is a SNAD claim. Again, there is no protection for any SNAD claim with the GSP other than "damaged in shipping". So eBay needs to clarify if these "empty box" claims are the responsibility of the GSP or the seller.

According to the buyer it was NOT an empty box. It was a box full of phone cases instead of a phone. The question is does the person packaging at GSP know it was suppose to be a phone and not phone cases ?

goodluckselling · ‎06-11-2019

@coolections wrote:
@ittybitnot wrote:
The problem I see here is that the "empty box" claim is a SNAD claim. Again, there is no protection for any SNAD claim with the GSP other than "damaged in shipping". So eBay needs to clarify if these "empty box" claims are the responsibility of the GSP or the seller.
According to the buyer it was NOT an empty box. It was a box full of phone cases instead of a phone. The question is does the person packaging at GSP know it was suppose to be a phone and not phone cases ?

The GSP center opens high value packages like this to insure the correct item is in there. It is possible the worker overlooked this?

They also open packages that have two or more items in them to insure the correct quantities are there. They open packages that might have something not permitted to ship to specific locations.

Good Luck Selling!

webwanna · ‎06-11-2019

This may be helpful.... I found it in a post by Triton back in 2018.... according to him , the GSP is supposed to be confirming that it is not an empty box or something other than what was sold. They may not check every detail (so a SNAD is still possible) but there is no way they should be sending an empty box or trash on to the buyer. I would call and respond to the case that the GSP checks contents prior to forwarding to final destination. Trash cell phone cases would not be mistaken for a $900 Phone. Maybe even point them to this post by Triton....

Sorry this happened to you.

in reply to 09-19-2018 09:53:23 AM

Hi @jen_proudleowife, happy to clarify! The Global Shipping Program will take responsibiity for loss or damage in transit from their facility to the buyer's destination. Upon receiving the package from the seller, they would inspect the package to ensure no damage has occured and will also review the contents to make sure the product matches what was stated (ie. a shirt was sold and a shirt was received by GSP or a smartphone was sold and a smartphone was received). The investigation to ensure a matching product does not review all details, such as color or size, and would not open a sealed package or test for functionality. If GSP receives a completely different product or if damage occured in the first leg of the shipment (from seller to the sorting facility), the package would be returned to the seller and a refund would be expected.

If the buyer recieves the item and finds that it arrived safely, but the incorrect item was sent, we would investigate to detemine fault and the seller may be responsible for return shipping/refund depending on what we find. Since GSP inspects the contents of the package before sending it on, they have confirmed that the correct type of item was sent. The buyer stating they received a completely different product would be something we protect the seller from as it is possible that packages were swapped in shipment. If the buyer received the correct type of product, but indicates that the item does not match the description (again, because of details such as color, size, function, etc.) the seller would be responsible as normal.

The Global Shipping Program does offer additional protections but would not excuse incorrect items being sent to the buyer. Let me know if this clears up any concerns or if further elaboration is needed!

orangehound · ‎06-11-2019

@goodluckselling wrote:
@coolections wrote:
@ittybitnot wrote:
The problem I see here is that the "empty box" claim is a SNAD claim. Again, there is no protection for any SNAD claim with the GSP other than "damaged in shipping". So eBay needs to clarify if these "empty box" claims are the responsibility of the GSP or the seller.
According to the buyer it was NOT an empty box. It was a box full of phone cases instead of a phone. The question is does the person packaging at GSP know it was suppose to be a phone and not phone cases ?
The GSP center opens high value packages like this to insure the correct item is in there. It is possible the worker overlooked this?

They also open packages that have two or more items in them to insure the correct quantities are there. They open packages that might have something not permitted to ship to specific locations.

I am seeing this sort of opinion posted by multiple people ... I'm also seeing a lot of conflicting and (what I believe to be) very incorrect information being posted in this thread. I think we should all be pointing to references to policies rather than just giving out opinions that can mislead sellers. So, I'm going to emphasize it.

Why do you all think that GSP employees open or fully inspect the contents of packages?

Please post for me the reference where they do this ... the only reference that I have is what eBay tells us. If you read the description of the Global Shipping Program, here is what GSP does with your packages:

Pitney Bowes will arrange for the international shipment of GSP orders from the Global Shipping Center by a third party shipping carrier (or carriers) to the delivery address designated by the buyer or to a collection center near the buyer that is designated by the shipping carrier. Pitney Bowes will oversee the sorting and processing of the GSP item at the Global Shipping Center in preparation for international shipment to your buyer. In addition, Pitney Bowes will manage the exportation and, through third party customs brokers, the importation clearance of GSP items purchased by the buyer.

Nowhere in that statement does it say that an item is inspected, opened or repackaged. Now, that doesn't mean that it doesn't happen (because I've read of stories of GSP repacking a poorly packed item), but in general they are only providing shipping logistics such as filling out customs forms, ensuring a product is eligible for import, and arranging in-country shipping.

webwanna · ‎06-11-2019

@orangehound wrote:
I am seeing this sort of opinion posted by multiple people. So, I'm going to emphasize it.

Why do you all think that GSP employees open or inspect the contents of packages?

Please post for me the reference where they do this ... the only reference that I have is what eBay tells us. If you read the description of the Global Shipping Program, here is what GSP does with your packages:

Pitney Bowes will arrange for the international shipment of GSP orders from the Global Shipping Center by a third party shipping carrier (or carriers) to the delivery address designated by the buyer or to a collection center near the buyer that is designated by the shipping carrier. Pitney Bowes will oversee the sorting and processing of the GSP item at the Global Shipping Center in preparation for international shipment to your buyer. In addition, Pitney Bowes will manage the exportation and, through third party customs brokers, the importation clearance of GSP items purchased by the buyer.

Nowhere in that statement does it say that an item is inspected, opened or repackaged. Now, that doesn't mean that it doesn't happen (because I've read of stories of GSP repacking a poorly packed item), but in general they are only providing shipping logistics such as filling out customs forms, ensuring a product is eligible for import, and arranging in-country shipping.

Please see my post above. We must have been typing at the same time.

orangehound · ‎06-11-2019

@webwanna wrote:
@orangehound wrote:
I
Please see my post above. We must have been typing at the same time.

I just did. Thanks for your reference! 🙂

ittybitnot · ‎06-11-2019

According to the buyer it was NOT an empty box. It was a box full of phone cases instead of a phone. The question is does the person packaging at GSP know it was suppose to be a phone and not phone cases ?

You would be correct, and yes, they are supposed to know by generally inspecting merchandise. I would not think a seller could send a phone book instead of the laptop sold through the GSP and get away with it.

But

Maybe they can?

The following phrase in the "terms" outlined by a poster upthread seems to indicate an opportunity for Pitney/ebay to weasel out:

If an item is lost or broken during international shipping, eBay Money Back Guarantee cases will be resolved in your favour, and your seller performance standards won’t be affected

The item is not "lost", the package arrived. The use of item or package seems like a matter of semantics or 'splitting hairs' so to speak. It is not broken, it is just filled with junk instead.

So is it a SNAD, and the seller is thrown under the bus? Looks like it so far.

Indeed shipping to a freight forwarder is sort of looking like a better option, though I expect voiding of the MBG when a freight forwarder is used is going to be eliminated once Managed Payments is mandatory.