eBay's N95 Mask Gouging Solution Inappropriate

[silvae]

So I listed an extra box of N95 masks I had sitting around, auction style, and started it at 99 cents for a three day auction. eBay then cancelled my auction with a stern warning to not relist any more N95 items.

I get that they want to stop price gouging, and I am 100% on board with that. Taking advantage of desperate people at an emotional time is not cool.

But it infuriates me that eBay is using broad and indiscriminate restrictions. Starting an auction at 99 cents is NOT price gouging as I am not dictating the sale price (it could sell for 25 dollars and I lose money). Also, this broad sledgehammer approach restricts access to items like N95s where eBay is often the only avenue to acquire such items for many people. As a consequence, a medically fragile person may not get the N95s they need to avoid getting sick, literally putting their life at risk. By shutting down every N95 auction, including ethical ones like mine, eBay could be putting people at risk.

I would have preferred if eBay instead restricted N95 sales to auction-style only, starting at a nominal price like 99 cents. This avoids unscrupulous price gouging and people who medically need masks can get them. Without the price gouging sellers, the overall market price for masks would drop and everyone wins (and lives).

[antique-keys]

Because it's against the law right now to price gouge. Listing an item for a set price is gouging if it's way over-priced. Letting others decide what they want to pay via an "auction" format is not gouging because the buyer set the price. It would like you walking up to a person selling a box of masks and offer him $3,000 for the lot. I'm trying to make the argument that eBay should allow auction formatting so the items can get to those who need them while avoiding the gouging issues.

[iam_nightowl]

"Because it's against the law right now to price gouge. Listing an item for a set price is gouging if it's way over-priced. Letting others decide what they want to pay via an "auction" format is not gouging because the buyer set the price. It would like you walking up to a person selling a box of masks and offer him $3,000 for the lot. I'm trying to make the argument that eBay should allow auction formatting so the items can get to those who need them while avoiding the gouging issues."

As it's been pointed out by others, either way is considered price gouging. And as I've said, you absolutely know the end result of an auction will be a very high price. There are regulations in place during times of natural disasters for a reason, and this is one of them. When people can profit from a natural disaster, supplies run out because so many people buy and hoard them to resell and make a killing. We're not talking about Furbies here (I remember the early days they'd be bid up to $70-$150), we're talking about human lives.

Someone has suggested offering to sell them at cost to first responders in their community. They can be donated to hospitals or nursing homes. They can be given to elderly neighbors. But for people to complain so much and incessantly for not being able to reap enormous profits from others' desperate situations when life or death is at stake during a worldwide crisis is beyond my comprehension.

So by not allowing auctions or fixed formats for these items, maybe eBay is in a roundabout way helping to get them to people who need them. These supplies can be stashed in an attic where they do no one any good, or they can be given to the people who desperately need these life-saving items. And it just might discourage the hoarding that contributes to the problem in the first place. You're trying to justify price gouging by cloaking it in an auction format.

I think of the nurses, doctors, and others who risk their lives every day caring for covid-19 patients, and many have died, yet people here complain because they can't make a hefty profit on the items these first responders need for the fight in this war. It's like sending a soldier to war but keeping his or her weapon so you can sell it on eBay. If you donate the supplies, you just might save a life. Personally, I think that's more valuable than any monetary gain.

[antique-keys]

I agree with you 100%. Unfortunately, most donated item (masks) cannot be used by medical personnel due to liability issues with outside resources. I know this because my wife is a medical attorney and she's working with several large facilities on this right now. The other problem on eBay are the sellers who are selling either used masks that have been repackaged and refilling hand sanitizer bottles with homemade solutions that are not effective. This is another argument to simply close those categories or don't allow any listings with N95 mask, etc. I would love to know if eBay is allowing some sellers to list items. I keep seeing items like masks and sanitizers in the "sold" search, so a lot is getting through, often sold for a fortune. Why not close these sellers accounts? Then again, individual Attorney Generals in each state could go after the sellers after this is over. It's quite easy to get records and subpoenas.

[iam_nightowl]

That's a good point about the liability issues, and it's reprehensible that unscrupulous sellers would repackage used masks and sell them as new. Sadly, I'm not surprised. Maybe only allowing authorized sellers to list after being vetted is another option going forward.

I've found through a google search that some communities are accepting donations of masks, gloves, disinfectant wipes, etc., as long as they're new in their original packaging. I'm sure even family members, friends, and neighbors would welcome them as well.

Take care, and best of luck to you and everyone.

[equid0x]

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@zone3accessories wrote:
So, what you're also saying (without saying) is that (1) person can also buy ALL of those $100 generators. Thus also profiting from the increase in demand in response to a natural disaster. Just in a different way; yet still depriving others from obtaining a generator.

This is what's going on all over the country right now.. but it's mostly greedy, panicky neighbors stuffing their shopping carts ALL the remaining toilet paper, masks, rubbing alcohol, on the shelf, etc.

So, similarly to what many stores are now doing..Ebay should maybe set some less ambiguous regulations in regards to this price gouging surge. Maybe place a specific limit or restriction on (prices) for particular items.

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eBay probably could have just implemented purchase limits on buyers, which would have increased supply, causing prices to drop. 

As usually, its always those "nasty" sellers doing everything wrong. /sarc

[equid0x]

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@iam_nightowl wrote:

What's the difference if it's an auction and the high bidder pays $100 for a box of N95 masks, or a Buy It Now and someone pays $100 for it? Both types of sales are the result of a voluntary purchase.

If a local pharmacy was selling one box of N95 masks for $100, it would most likely be considered price gouging, regardless of whether or not a desperate person would voluntarily pay that amount.

If people find they can't price gouge during national emergencies - whether on eBay or Amazon, etc. - then just maybe there'd be less hoarding at the start and then there would potentially be supplies, like masks and toilet paper, left for others who need them. And this isn't in reference to the op, because I know as turquoisetulips (if I remember correctly) pointed out, some people have extra masks because of allergies or caring for someone who was sick, etc.

My point isn't whether or not people are being deprived of something they need. Buyers on either format would be voluntarily paying whatever the amount is or turns out to be in either case. Both formats should be allowed, or both disallowed. But saying auctions should be allowed but not Buy It Now doesn't make any sense.

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IMHO "price gouging" only really applies when there is a lack of supply. If I'm the only gas station in town, and I double my prices during an emergency for no reason other than to turn a profit, I could consider that price gouging. Buying from a public market with an entire range of prices from "reasonable" to "outrageous" doesn't sound like gouging to me. 

Its a fallacy to claim that sellers are gouging and causing shortages when there are literally thousands of sellers to choose from. 

I'm not aware that there are actual shortages of these products. There are runs occurring on those products when they arrive in stores. 

My local grocery store is fully restocked every morning at 7am when they open. Some people are still panic buying certain products and they're selling out in a few hours. Its not a shortage, its buying hysteria like black friday. 

[equid0x]

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@iam_nightowl wrote:

"I'll pay $30.00 for single mask if it would save my life. Everyone forgets that the Government has banned corporate sales of things like sanitizer to private citizens, so  places like eBay are a person's only option. As for shipping, eBay removed the option to report "excess shipping" a long time ago which was a mistake. I've been reporting gouging via "buy it now" sales for the last week. I've reported some 100 people. I leave the auctions alone unless they are gouging on shipping. I've been able to report all gouged items in a single category in just 15 minutes."

So who made you God? Maybe someone is willing to pay the Buy It Now price because they're worried about their life or the life of a loved one and they can't wait for seven days (or whatever) for the auction to end and maybe or maybe not be the high bidder and go through the whole process again. Maybe the Buy It Now price is lower than the the end result of the auction. These days there aren't enough masks available to drive the price down to your perceived "market" value.

I don't understand your obsession against Buy It Now. You'd pay $30 for a mask to save your life, but if someone else wants to pay more than that to save their life, you'd deprive them of the opportunity because it's a Buy It Now listing and you're offended or obsessed with reporting Buy It Now listings?

Anyone who lists on eBay knows that if the market is flooded, prices go down. And that's true whether or not it's an auction or a Buy It Now listing.

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I'm not sure why there is all the vigilantism going on with this site. I said a couple years back it was looking like  perhaps a competitor was intentionally fomenting these type of campaigns in order to smear the name of the site. 

Vigilantism is actually illegal in most states. I'm not sure where all these busybodies get the time to worry about this nonsense. 

[equid0x]

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@iam_nightowl wrote:

"Because it's against the law right now to price gouge. Listing an item for a set price is gouging if it's way over-priced. Letting others decide what they want to pay via an "auction" format is not gouging because the buyer set the price. It would like you walking up to a person selling a box of masks and offer him $3,000 for the lot. I'm trying to make the argument that eBay should allow auction formatting so the items can get to those who need them while avoiding the gouging issues."

As it's been pointed out by others, either way is considered price gouging. And as I've said, you absolutely know the end result of an auction will be a very high price. There are regulations in place during times of natural disasters for a reason, and this is one of them. When people can profit from a natural disaster, supplies run out because so many people buy and hoard them to resell and make a killing. We're not talking about Furbies here (I remember the early days they'd be bid up to $70-$150), we're talking about human lives.

Someone has suggested offering to sell them at cost to first responders in their community. They can be donated to hospitals or nursing homes. They can be given to elderly neighbors. But for people to complain so much and incessantly for not being able to reap enormous profits from others' desperate situations when life or death is at stake during a worldwide crisis is beyond my comprehension.

So by not allowing auctions or fixed formats for these items, maybe eBay is in a roundabout way helping to get them to people who need them. These supplies can be stashed in an attic where they do no one any good, or they can be given to the people who desperately need these life-saving items. And it just might discourage the hoarding that contributes to the problem in the first place. You're trying to justify price gouging by cloaking it in an auction format.

I think of the nurses, doctors, and others who risk their lives every day caring for covid-19 patients, and many have died, yet people here complain because they can't make a hefty profit on the items these first responders need for the fight in this war. It's like sending a soldier to war but keeping his or her weapon so you can sell it on eBay. If you donate the supplies, you just might save a life. Personally, I think that's more valuable than any monetary gain.

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Nobody is dying without masks. Go watch the videos from China and you'll find that in fact, they're all dying with them. 

[stumblebumble]

I agree with eBay on this one.  Taking advantage hoping to make a big profit on an item that is in short supply to the medical profession is not what we should be thinking of right now.  Too bad it has to be this way, but it does.   eBay doesn't have time to analyze.  They have to do all listings in those specific categories and treat everyone the same or do none.    All listings in that category are removed and probably automatically.  There are still no paper towels, toilet paper, hand sanitizers in our area and disinfectant cleaners are hard to find.   So, I make my own hand sanitizer.  There are plenty of good recipes out there to do so.   These reprehensible people bought toilet paper and hand sanitizers the first week by the case, hoping to take advantage of a crisis.  I just bet no one will buy at the price they are asking as there were quite a few on here.  They will probably try to return it all to the store when the crisis is over and they have an overload 5-year supply in their basement.    Guess what, Walmart is not taking back shoes and clothing.  I say good for them  and they restricted TP,  paper towels, hand sanitizers, and alcohol sprays to 2 per each item at checkout.  There were employees monitoring people in self checkout and pulling excessive quantities.  Walmart closed and blocked the aisles with those items,  added an armed security guard,  and handed 2 items/per  of what you wanted.  There were fist fights going on several days in a row at first.     Someone on eBay had a 12-roll package of TP for $1000 claiming it was for charity.  The only charity was the sellers pocket.   BUSTED and deserved it.  That seller is back on here but not selling TP.    If eBay says DON'T LIST IT, then don't list it.  Does you no good to be infuriated about it.   When they take the listing down and you try to relist it, be forewarned.  You will probably be suspended for good and your selling days will be done on eBay.  Opening another account won't work either.  eBay has very secure ways to monitor that also.

[stumblebumble]

Great post hdjenn72,  great post indeed.  How will doctors help we people if in need when they are sick and can't help themselves.   I have only two n95 masks in my home.  One for my spouse and one for me.  I made some of my own plain white cotton sheeting fabric and added elastic.  I have gently washed them in hot soapy water and air dried.  We have used them when I took my husband for DR appointment and will reuse them when we need to.  I only hope you reported the price gouger.  $400 for 5 masks...that is criminal.  Hopefully the eBay bots took that one down. 

[shopsmart247]

Profits are not for little people, besides they need to create a huge demand so the proper people can gouge us.

[shopsmart247]

Exactly, these healthcare workers need to have some patience here. I'm sure the hospitals are working hard along with their wall street connections to bring these people the masks they need to protect themselves. However, they need to keep in mind that every mask someone buys on eBay, is a mask they don't by from preferred US corporations. We simply can't have these small sellers cutting into the profits of US corporations, it's simply not patriotic.

[bloodys-2]

same here, but you go on ebay and i see new listings of mask n95 an so . but they took mind down ... this is a auction site people bid so they know what they are paying an can afford if the choose to spend hundrends of dollars thats on them not the seller its like any other item on here you bid to win...   i think the ones that are still on  ebays owns..

[shopsmart247]

Every mask you buy on eBay, is a loss for wall street. I'm sure they are working hard to get those US masks manufactured for you. Heck, they refused all those tests from Germany offered to give us for free, because we have a better test.... just waiting for that patent to get pushed through. You know our leaders have always cared so much about preserving US manufacturing, so waiting to purchase these masks is simply the patriotic thing to do.

[bloodys-2]

i would believe price gouging is when you set the price higher . when you auction off something your not setting the price so how can that be price gouging.....  people are bidding what they want...