eBay is refunding the buyers without returning the Items. I think this has gone to far.

[eddys-electronics-store]

Pretty much what the tittle says. Anyone got any ideas what might be my course of action?

This is just absolutely unbelievable. They are refunding the items without returning the items. Laptops that were bought and sold with our personal effort, besides the funds being held by eBay, they are refunding the buyers without letting them return the items.

[gurlcat]

---

@pjcdn2005 wrote:

You just made me realize ..... I forgot that if you have No Returns, when a buyer files an INAD you have to go to the trouble of buying and transmitting a return label outside of eBay's system (which incidentally means paying the retail rate for the label)

That's never been the case. 

---

But the seller CAN provide their own label from outside eBay, correct?  And if the seller does that, don't they have to enter the tracking number into the Return Details, to let eBay know the buyer was provided with a label, and that is the tracking needed to show it was delivered back to the seller?  

[ittybitnot]

I forgot that if you have No Returns, when a buyer files an INAD you have to go to the trouble of buying and transmitting a return label outside of eBay's system (which incidentally means paying the retail rate for the label)

@gurlcat 

That is not the case.  "No returns" only applies to buyer remorse returns, i.e. found one cheaper, changed my mind.  If a seller has a no returns policy, it does not apply to "not as described" claims.  They CAN and DO provide an eBay generated return label. 

[robbie31415]

There is no requirement to use the supplied label for ANY reason regardless if its in the system or not.

If there is a generated label pending in the system unused, all the buyer has to do is contact eBay CS with their return tracking #. If it shows 'Delivered' and the zip code it was supposed to go back to then a refund will be issued to the buyer.

[ittybitnot]

And the OP has not clarified what kind of label they gave the buyer.  That is a critical detail. 

@gurlcat 

Yes, they did.  Go read. 

The issue is, that a buyer is NOT required to use that label. 

[gurlcat]

Okay but see my question above (msg # 91). 

[robbie31415]

So I use pirateship return labels, all I have to do is turn on 'Require RMA'. This blocks auto generation of eBay labels.

Then I go to the return case and select one of the options either (upload) or (already provided). I select upload, I provide the PDF label I got from pirateship and put in the tracking #. It records it to the return.

It's possible the seller in this instance did not upload the correct documentation so eBay was under the impression that a label was never actually provided.

[ittybitnot]

@gurlcat 

A message from the OP:

I never refunded the item!!! The buyer opened a case, and I accepted the return of the package (I paid for the label), it was an eBay label. After a few days the customer did not ship the item (And I made sure of this), and closed the case in favor of the buyer.  

The underline is mine. 

[gurlcat]

Thank you.  Then it just seems the op is leaving something out, some detail we would need to understand what happened, because if they really did provide an eBay-generated label, then the tracking should have been on the Return Details page immediately.  -And maybe it WAS (and that's what they mean by 'and I made sure of this' -by seeing that the tracking never showed an acceptance scan).  But then there's no reason eBay should have issued the refund only a few days later.  Normally they give 15 business days for the buyer to get the acceptance scan, but they don't just give the money back without it either.  
This one is so frustrating, and it looks like the OP is done discussing it, so we'll probably not be able to learn anything to look out for. 

[ittybitnot]

Thank you.  Then it just seems the op is leaving something out, some detail we would need to understand what happened,

@gurlcat 

As it stands now, I think it is just a revisited "older version" of the fake tracking return scam. The same scenario has been documented repeatedly for a few years now, and after all this time it is still apparently successful.   As I posted upthread to @eddys-electronics-store  in #49

Buyer files return

You send a label

Buyer does not use label

Buyer uses their own label or one they get/or purchase on the net that has a recorded delivery (to your area)

Buyer contacts eBay with the above tracking number that shows "delivered"

Buyer gets refunded, case closed. 

You get the shaft

Keep in mind eBay checks none of this stuff.  A whining buyer can contact eBay and give a tracking number that shows "delivery" that was generated even before they filed a claim.  It could be for a 2 ounce envelope, where a returned computer may be a few pounds... NOBODY LOOKS, NOBODY CARES except the seller victim.  That is why the OP is under the impression that the buyer never returned the product if the buyer merely contact eBay with the "proof of return tracking".   

This situation cannot be some super secret Payment Dispute, since sellers cannot generate a return label for those.  Hopefully, @eddys-electronics-store will return soon, and we can provide advice of what needs to be done next. 

Happy New Year to you and yours!

[broto_64]

---

@buyselljack2016 wrote:

The seller return policy has no bearing on the ability of a buyer to open a "not as described"

---

I never said it did.

I said AFTER the buyer opens a return for "not as described" ebay's mbg does not require a tracking showing "delivered" before the MBG will kick over the refund once the buyer escalates the case.

It's actually a coding issue, ebay's API libraries, in addition to OpenAPI documents, are convenient for third-parties to use and they are for sure a jump-start to integrating with our APIs. The SDKs are open-sourced and provide a full transparency to developers into what is happening in their integrations.

It is how ebay functions, you can review it anytime.
developer.ebay.com

[yuzuha]

---

@gurlcat wrote:

Thank you.  Then it just seems the op is leaving something out, some detail we would need to understand what happened, because if they really did provide an eBay-generated label, then the tracking should have been on the Return Details page immediately.  -And maybe it WAS (and that's what they mean by 'and I made sure of this' -by seeing that the tracking never showed an acceptance scan).  But then there's no reason eBay should have issued the refund only a few days later.  Normally they give 15 business days for the buyer to get the acceptance scan, but they don't just give the money back without it either. 

---

Yeah, this is the part that's throwing me. I once had a buyer who was having trouble getting an electronic item to work, so I went ahead and sent him a return label so that he could send it back. He got back to me the next day saying he got it working and was going to keep it and thus never used the return label. After the time given for him to get it in the mail ran out, I contacted eBay, they looked and saw that the tracking had never been used and immediately closed the case in my favor. I'm not understanding why that wouldn't be the case for the OP.

[broto_64]

---

@toomuchstuffagain35 wrote:

---

@broto_64 wrote:

Not sure if this has been mentioned but your listings have a No Returns policy, and that allows the buyers to open a case for item not as described... Then they wait, and wait until the case times out, escalate and ebay refunds their money because a "no returns" policy has that loophole. Specifically, ebay's Money Back Guarantee does not require online tracking show delivery on a No Returns policy for the refund to transpire.

---

A seller having no returns shouldn't make any difference if, in fact, the seller DOES accept the return. I'm pretty sure when they accept the return they're given a choice of providing their own label or having ebay generate one.

---

Correct.

I was talking after the label is issued, what happens then, read again:

And let me clarify: After the seller "accepts" the return and issues the label...

A buyer waits until the case times out, escalates and ebay refunds their money because a "no returns" policy has that loophole. Specifically, ebay's Money Back Guarantee does not require online tracking show delivery on a No Returns policy for the refund to transpire.

[gurlcat]

---

@yuzuha wrote:

---

@gurlcat wrote:

Thank you.  Then it just seems the op is leaving something out, some detail we would need to understand what happened, because if they really did provide an eBay-generated label, then the tracking should have been on the Return Details page immediately.  -And maybe it WAS (and that's what they mean by 'and I made sure of this' -by seeing that the tracking never showed an acceptance scan).  But then there's no reason eBay should have issued the refund only a few days later.  Normally they give 15 business days for the buyer to get the acceptance scan, but they don't just give the money back without it either. 

---

Yeah, this is the part that's throwing me. I once had a buyer who was having trouble getting an electronic item to work, so I went ahead and sent him a return label so that he could send it back. He got back to me the next day saying he got it working and was going to keep it and thus never used the return label. After the time given for him to get it in the mail ran out, I contacted eBay, they looked and saw that the tracking had never been used and immediately closed the case in my favor. I'm not understanding why that wouldn't be the case for the OP.

---

Well the difference in your case is that you were proactive by making that call, whereas the OP just watched the days go by with no scans on the label he provided.  EDIT: and instead, the BUYER made a call, with a fake tracking number showing the item "returned" ... if Ittybitty is correct, whcih they probably are.   I can't think of any other way this could have happened. 

[buyselljack2016]

---

@broto_64 wrote:

---

@buyselljack2016 wrote:

The seller return policy has no bearing on the ability of a buyer to open a "not as described"

---

I never said it did.

I said AFTER the buyer opens a return for "not as described" ebay's mbg does not require a tracking showing "delivered" before the MBG will kick over the refund once the buyer escalates the case.

You posted:

Not sure if this has been mentioned but your listings have a No Returns policy, and that allows the buyers to open a case for item not as described... Then they wait, and wait until the case times out, escalate and ebay refunds their money because a "no returns" policy has that loophole. Specifically, ebay's Money Back Guarantee does not require online tracking show delivery on a No Returns policy for the refund to transpire.

It's actually a coding issue, ebay's API libraries, in addition to OpenAPI documents, are convenient for third-parties to use and they are for sure a jump-start to integrating with our APIs. The SDKs are open-sourced and provide a full transparency to developers into what is happening in their integrations.

It is how ebay functions, you can review it anytime.
developer.ebay.com

---

Agree that it does not have to show "delivery" if the label is provided by the seller, but there has to be an "acceptance" scan

If the buyer provides their own tracking it has to show delivery.

[broto_64]

---

@gurlcat wrote:

You just made me realize ..... I forgot that if you have No Returns, when a buyer files an INAD you have to go to the trouble of buying and transmitting a return label outside of eBay's system (which incidentally means paying the retail rate for the label) ... and if you don't enter the tracking number into the Return Details, there would be no way for eBay to KNOW that you provided that label.

---

Yup. 
Took me a long time to figure it out too.

---

@gurlcat wrote:

Man I sure cringe every time I remember what a hellscape selling was before I switched all my listings to Free Returns.  

---

The worst part for me is how most of the community here denies this, a good part of the reason it took so long for me to figure it out, everyone says that's not how it works...

But it has been a known feature (or glitch, however you want to call it) of the MBG as pertains to the sellers return policies for as long as I can remember. A buyer need not actually return the product in order to receive a full refund on a "no returns" policy, all the buyer has to do is open the case and follow through the process. Well, except that part about the label  ... I do appreciate the educational bit about issuing the label outside of ebay (paying full price) and then entering the tracking number into the case, I had not thought of that as it certainly opens the door to my using a No Returns policy in the future.