mam98031 • Volunteer Community Member • Buyer/Seller since 1999
Best regards,
@dasarock wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@mangorunner wrote:
I have always been of the understanding that the Buyer loses protection under the eBay Money Back Guarantee when using a Freight Forwarding service. If the Seller ships the item and tracking shows it was delivered to the address of record in the original purchase, and the address is that of a Freight Forwarding service, then the eBay Money Back Guarantee does not apply. The policy explicitly says that "Items shipped to another address after original delivery" are not covered. (Following the link provided, scroll down to the section labeled "Not Covered".)
However, in another forum, there was a recent post that indicated otherwise - or at least a new caveat/nuance of which Sellers should take notice. Regarding their Buyer's return request, the Seller (poster) relayed the following details. (I've paraphrased):
Called eBay and eBay said the whole freight forwarding thing recently got changed. They (eBay) can now only reject a return request if the Buyer actually *says* they used a forwarder in an eBay message. Apparently, the fact that the shipping address belongs to a freight forwarder is no longer enough. The eBay Rep said that buyers are claiming that they *work* at the freight-fowarding company - things like that - in order that they may still be able to make returns and file INADs/SNADs. The eBay Rep said that only way to actually prove that they used a freight forwarder is with a Buyer message acknowledging that.
I had an obvious freight-forwarder sale the other day. I took photos of the item, contents as packed before the box was sealed, the box, and the shipping label and sent them to the Buyer with the message "I see you are using a Freight Forwarding service. Here are photos of the item as it is being shipped so that you have them for your records." I received no reply from the Buyer.
Has anyone heard about this change? Any recent experience in this area? Is there truth to this policy change? Are you now confirming the use of a FF with your Buyer via eBay message prior to shipping?
Hi @mangorunner, when the delivery address is that of a forwarding service this is not by itself enough evidence to say the item was forwarded - forwarding companies have employees, and those employees may have purchases shipped to the office. I personally have all of my orders shipped to my office, as do many of my colleagues and friends. When there is proof that a buyer has had an item forwarded beyond the original delivery address, they would no longer be covered by the eBay Money Back Guarantee. To withhold protection from a buyer, we do require evidence beyond the delivery address being that of a forwarding company.
I know this may seem strange, but years ago I personally spoke with the owner of one of these companies who had a case closed against him for a high value item because the assumption was made that the item was forwarded (don't worry, we corrected our mistake for this buyer). Additionally, many forwarding services will inspect and retain the item for their customers if this option is selected. I've worked with many of these companies personally when I worked in our Money Back Guarantee department. These are just a couple of examples of why we do not use the address by itself as evidence of an item being forwarded.
That being said, we can see if the address shipped to is a forwarding address and will consider this in conjunction with other details when reviewing the case to determine if the transaction qualifies for protection. You are welcome to contact Customer Service to review the specific details of your transaction if you have any concerns.
and if the buyer's registered address is outside the u.s. and the ship to address is a freight forwarder?
Hi @dasarock, a buyer having an international registration address doesn't constitute proof that an item is being forwarded. It's entirely possible that a buyer is traveling or has moved without updating their registration address, so a comparison of their shipping address and registration isn't enough to prove reshipping.
@pjcdn2005 wrote:
@mam98031 wrote:
@thehonorabletrader wrote:Follow up Question...
The Issue I ran into is that the Shipping Address on PayPal was a different Shipping Address than on eBay. I shipped to the address on the eBay Checkout, which is probably why I was protected by eBay. However, this may be why PayPal didn't protect me? How do you handle those situations? Because I feel like it's a lose-lose if you ship. Is that when it's "appropriate" (I guess if you can call it that) to Cancel for "out of stock" and take the defect so as to not violate eBay policy and remain accountable to them? I am fine with that, I am just curious how others handle that situation.
I haven't had a freight forwarding address in over a years, so perhaps the policies have been changed recently. I've learned a lot from this thread one way or another.
You nailed it.
While the Ebay policy says you are protected if you ship to the address in Ebay OR on the PP payment. PP does not share that policy. They will only cover you if you ship to the address on the PP payment. So it is always in the seller's best interest to always ship to the address on the PP payment as you then stay covered by both sites.
Always ship to the address on the PP payment, without exception.
I agree that the seller needs to ship to the payment address for inr seller protection but once payment has been made, the seller will always see the same address on eBay as they will see on PayPal...it has been like that for quite a while. I’m sure you already know that but I wanted to clarify it as so many people still seem to think that they may have to choose which one to ship to and that just doesn’t happen unless the seller compares the eBay address before payment to the after payment address on PayPal.
I think they were talking about an older problem claim in PP.
However just last year, when using the Ebay label system I had an issue. Upon printing the label, the address got changed. Didn't match the Ebay checkout or the PP address on the payment. It was the strangest thing I've seen. Ebay had no answer as to how that happened. I voided the label and printed it from PP just to be safe. This issue never repeated.
@dasarock wrote:
brian@ebay wrote:
@dasarock wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@mangorunner wrote:
I have always been of the understanding that the Buyer loses protection under the eBay Money Back Guarantee when using a Freight Forwarding service. If the Seller ships the item and tracking shows it was delivered to the address of record in the original purchase, and the address is that of a Freight Forwarding service, then the eBay Money Back Guarantee does not apply. The policy explicitly says that "Items shipped to another address after original delivery" are not covered. (Following the link provided, scroll down to the section labeled "Not Covered".)
However, in another forum, there was a recent post that indicated otherwise - or at least a new caveat/nuance of which Sellers should take notice. Regarding their Buyer's return request, the Seller (poster) relayed the following details. (I've paraphrased):
Called eBay and eBay said the whole freight forwarding thing recently got changed. They (eBay) can now only reject a return request if the Buyer actually *says* they used a forwarder in an eBay message. Apparently, the fact that the shipping address belongs to a freight forwarder is no longer enough. The eBay Rep said that buyers are claiming that they *work* at the freight-fowarding company - things like that - in order that they may still be able to make returns and file INADs/SNADs. The eBay Rep said that only way to actually prove that they used a freight forwarder is with a Buyer message acknowledging that.
I had an obvious freight-forwarder sale the other day. I took photos of the item, contents as packed before the box was sealed, the box, and the shipping label and sent them to the Buyer with the message "I see you are using a Freight Forwarding service. Here are photos of the item as it is being shipped so that you have them for your records." I received no reply from the Buyer.
Has anyone heard about this change? Any recent experience in this area? Is there truth to this policy change? Are you now confirming the use of a FF with your Buyer via eBay message prior to shipping?
Hi @mangorunner, when the delivery address is that of a forwarding service this is not by itself enough evidence to say the item was forwarded - forwarding companies have employees, and those employees may have purchases shipped to the office. I personally have all of my orders shipped to my office, as do many of my colleagues and friends. When there is proof that a buyer has had an item forwarded beyond the original delivery address, they would no longer be covered by the eBay Money Back Guarantee. To withhold protection from a buyer, we do require evidence beyond the delivery address being that of a forwarding company.
I know this may seem strange, but years ago I personally spoke with the owner of one of these companies who had a case closed against him for a high value item because the assumption was made that the item was forwarded (don't worry, we corrected our mistake for this buyer). Additionally, many forwarding services will inspect and retain the item for their customers if this option is selected. I've worked with many of these companies personally when I worked in our Money Back Guarantee department. These are just a couple of examples of why we do not use the address by itself as evidence of an item being forwarded.
That being said, we can see if the address shipped to is a forwarding address and will consider this in conjunction with other details when reviewing the case to determine if the transaction qualifies for protection. You are welcome to contact Customer Service to review the specific details of your transaction if you have any concerns.
and if the buyer's registered address is outside the u.s. and the ship to address is a freight forwarder?
Hi @dasarock, a buyer having an international registration address doesn't constitute proof that an item is being forwarded. It's entirely possible that a buyer is traveling or has moved without updating their registration address, so a comparison of their shipping address and registration isn't enough to prove reshipping.
so in this case, would a signature required card from usps constitute delivery whether forwarding service or not
Hi @dasarock, a seller just needs to provide proof of delivery to the address provided at checkout for protection in an item not received request. A signature is only needed when the transaction amount exceeds $750.
@Anonymous wrote:
@mangorunner wrote:I have always been of the understanding that the Buyer loses protection under the eBay Money Back Guarantee when using a Freight Forwarding service. If the Seller ships the item and tracking shows it was delivered to the address of record in the original purchase, and the address is that of a Freight Forwarding service, then the eBay Money Back Guarantee does not apply. The policy explicitly says that "Items shipped to another address after original delivery" are not covered. (Following the link provided, scroll down to the section labeled "Not Covered".)
However, in another forum, there was a recent post that indicated otherwise - or at least a new caveat/nuance of which Sellers should take notice. Regarding their Buyer's return request, the Seller (poster) relayed the following details. (I've paraphrased):
Called eBay and eBay said the whole freight forwarding thing recently got changed. They (eBay) can now only reject a return request if the Buyer actually *says* they used a forwarder in an eBay message. Apparently, the fact that the shipping address belongs to a freight forwarder is no longer enough. The eBay Rep said that buyers are claiming that they *work* at the freight-fowarding company - things like that - in order that they may still be able to make returns and file INADs/SNADs. The eBay Rep said that only way to actually prove that they used a freight forwarder is with a Buyer message acknowledging that.
I had an obvious freight-forwarder sale the other day. I took photos of the item, contents as packed before the box was sealed, the box, and the shipping label and sent them to the Buyer with the message "I see you are using a Freight Forwarding service. Here are photos of the item as it is being shipped so that you have them for your records." I received no reply from the Buyer.
Has anyone heard about this change? Any recent experience in this area? Is there truth to this policy change? Are you now confirming the use of a FF with your Buyer via eBay message prior to shipping?
Hi @mangorunner, when the delivery address is that of a forwarding service this is not by itself enough evidence to say the item was forwarded - forwarding companies have employees, and those employees may have purchases shipped to the office. I personally have all of my orders shipped to my office, as do many of my colleagues and friends. When there is proof that a buyer has had an item forwarded beyond the original delivery address, they would no longer be covered by the eBay Money Back Guarantee. To withhold protection from a buyer, we do require evidence beyond the delivery address being that of a forwarding company.
I know this may seem strange, but years ago I personally spoke with the owner of one of these companies who had a case closed against him for a high value item because the assumption was made that the item was forwarded (don't worry, we corrected our mistake for this buyer). Additionally, many forwarding services will inspect and retain the item for their customers if this option is selected. I've worked with many of these companies personally when I worked in our Money Back Guarantee department. These are just a couple of examples of why we do not use the address by itself as evidence of an item being forwarded.
That being said, we can see if the address shipped to is a forwarding address and will consider this in conjunction with other details when reviewing the case to determine if the transaction qualifies for protection. You are welcome to contact Customer Service to review the specific details of your transaction if you have any concerns.
@Anonymous My only problem with this reply is eBay should be able to determine the country of Buyer origin with a simple IP address check via a site like ARIN.net ("whois.arin.net) ... IP addresses are registered and assigned to local internet service providers (in large blocks of IP addresses) in the country of origin. For example, Netvigator in Hong Kong is assigned a large block of IP addresses for its users, some are permanently assigned to businesses and others are used as random roll over IPs for public hot spots. So a Buyer there will use their local IP address to access the internet then proceed to a US URL to log in and create an account, etc. Its no different then the header information on an email from another country as the entire IP address "history" travels from the sender's computer or electronic device to the recipient's device is recorded with the message. Older Outlook programs had this info readily available, newer versions you really have to drill down to get it ... but its there.
So even if a Buyer logs on to the US site to register their account their IP address is registered with a foreign service provider. So, that means eBay does have a way to determine if a Buyer is IN our country or not.
If eBay can monitor the IP addresses of multiple accounts here in the US to check to see if accounts are "associated" (ie to check for circumventing blocks, etc) then it goes without saying they KNOW when a Buyer is physically located IN or OUT of the US.
@mangorunner wrote:
@mam98031 wrote:While the Ebay policy says you are protected if you ship to the address in Ebay OR on the PP payment. PP does not share that policy. They will only cover you if you ship to the address on the PP payment. So it is always in the seller's best interest to always ship to the address on the PP payment as you then stay covered by both sites.
Always ship to the address on the PP payment, without exception.
Do I understand correctly: you take the time to open each sale transaction in both eBay and PayPal and ensure that the addresses match each other before printing the shipping label?
Nope. I always ship to the address on the PP payment notification.
