eBay

gurlcat · ‎08-23-2023

Buyer sent me an offer Monday, which I accepted. She waited until tonight to pay ..... and then immediately filed a CHARGEBACK! All without any personal communication. And look at the reason -uh honey you don't recognize a transaction that YOU made an offer for?

Why not just ask me to cancel it? Or isn't there a way for buyers to cancel a sale themselves, if it hasn't shipped yet? The fact that both the payment and the card dispute happened within a few minutes of each other makes it seem like she planned it before she paid. The only reason I can think of is she is already on the cusp of whatever penalty ebay enacts for buyers cancelling too many orders, could it be that?

Well anyway, at least I haven't shipped yet. But 2 questions:
Should I just accept and agree to have the funds taken and given back, and if I do will I still get charged the $20 ebay penalty?
I still have the prompt to ship this item by 11:59 PM tomorrow; it doesn't recognize that the item is under dispute. What can I do about that?

mam98031 · ‎08-24-2023

@duffy4444 wrote:
   Ebay has given you two choices: Challenge or Accept.
   Since you haven't shipped the item yet, select accept, which will refund the buyer and most likely will entirely close the dispute.
   Put the buyer on your Blocked Bidder List to avoid this happening again because of a possible legitimate hacking, cc theft or unauthorized user.
   Relist the item, dust off your hands, and move on.
Cheers, Duffy

Which is NEW by the way.

mam98031 • Volunteer Community Member • Buyer/Seller since 1999

"I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you." Quote from Edward I Koch

gurlcat · ‎08-24-2023

Your suspicion was right about being unable to cancel the sale because of the dispute. I didn't even try until I had a CSR on the phone, and it was his suggestion to cancel first .... but I got a red "NOPE" box. So he advised me to just accept/agree about the dispute (which I then did) and he said not to worry about the pending shipment, that I "should" be able to cancel the sale once the funding is straightened out and the dispute is fully closed. Then if there is a strike on my service metrics I'll have no trouble getting it removed because of the circumstances, and our phone call was being recorded plus he put in notes and reiterated his name, if I need to reference the call.

That's pretty much what I expected and I haven't been truly worried about any of this from the beginning. It's just a notably weird 'first' for me and I hadn't seen anyone else encountering it either. But then my activity here is sporadic; who knows how many obscure scams and outrageous ebay decisions I've missed discussions on.

retro_entertainment_collectibles · ‎08-24-2023

@gurlcat wrote:
Yeah I don't want to do it in the wrong order, I may just have to get help from someone on EFB, if they answer quickly enough.

As for the hacked account theory -that occurred to me, but it doesn't make sense at all - what kind of hacker makes an offer to get a better deal on an item when they're spending someone else's money ..... and then also waits 2 days to pay, giving the real account holder that much time to log in and see that she was being prompted to pay for something she didn't want?

You've impeccable logic meow meow.

There is indeed a way to cancel or request cancelation before payment is tendered. Com-mew-nicating with the customer via message is probably a useless foray given the CB is already out there.

Disputing it via the CB form make no sense, never shipped so you loose no matter what when it comes to the banking side of it all. Thus the question becomes one of any impacts on you're metrics.

gurlcat · ‎08-24-2023

I should have thought to ask 'Julian' about this when I had him on the phone. -Cheese and crackers this thing came with almost $14.00 in FVF's and PLS fees. -Will I still have to pay those? Right now the dispute is still processing my acceptance. @wastingtime101

wastingtime101 · ‎08-24-2023

Because of the fees I suggested attempting to cancel before accepting the dispute. Even though I was pretty sure it wouldn't work, it was worth trying.

Go to the transaction and select "send refund" then try to send a full refund under the reason "buyer cancelled" and in the comments box write "Buyer filed payment dispute."

I assume you'll come up against the same road block, but just like with cancelling, it's worth trying.

If you run into another block then you'll have to ask CS if they can credit your fees, but they won't be able to do anything about that until the dispute is closed (which can take 4-8 weeks). So if you contact them today to ask if they can do that and if they say yes but it's a manual process, you'll have to contact them again after the dispute is formally closed and ask them to put the request through. I think they'll do a courtesy credit of fees, but you'll have to ask.

Of course you can ship if you're still within your handling time. But if you're late I'd cross that off as an option because seller protection on 'didn't recognize the charge' requires you ship within your handling time. Factoring in that you already accepted the dispute, no way I'd ship at this point.

GLORIOUS!

gurlcat · ‎08-24-2023

But as I said I already accepted the terms of the dispute and it says the funds will be returned to the buyer (see the screenshot?). That was what the CSR Julian said to do today. So even if its possible to do the "send refund" like you say, then I would be double-refunding her. Certainly don't want to do that.

Just so I'm clear, when a seller either loses a payment dispute or agrees with a payment dispute, ebay doesn't automatically credit the seller for their final value and promotion fees? They have to beg and wait for weeks, when ebay did nothing for the seller to warrant taking those monies, because the seller got nothing out of it (maybe even lost their item)? But obviously I'm not shipping the earrings.

This wasn't making me angry at first but it's really starting to. And the buyer hasn't written to apologize or explain what happened.

wastingtime101 · ‎08-24-2023

@gurlcat wrote:
But as I said I already accepted the terms of the dispute and it says the funds will be returned to the buyer (see the screenshot?). That was what the CSR Julian said to do today. So even if its possible to do the "send refund" like you say, then I would be double-refunding her. Certainly don't want to do that.

Nope. System would not permit that. If you're able to 'send refund' then the payment dispute will be denied since a refund was already sent.

I've accepted several disputes that CC found against the buyer so no refund was pulled from me. Just because you accept a dispute does not speed up or close it out. CC still has to review, and if a refund already went through the dispute will be denied.

Like I said, I don't think 'send refund' will work, but worth trying because of fees.

GLORIOUS!

gurlcat · ‎08-24-2023

Ah I get what you mean now. Welp, I gave it a whirl but nope, wouldn't let me refund. Thanks for nursing my tantrum. 🤣

I do suspect ebay will credit me the fees if I ask. I am a TRS after all, I can't remember the last time I asked for a feedback removal or any other favors, and this CSR did say he was putting in careful notes about the situation so I could get the shipping ding removed if needed (he was a good egg, very nice), so maybe I'll be able to kill 2 birds with one phone call, after the dispute closes.

There is one bright side, however long I have to wait is also how long this nitwit buyer has to wait for her money back, when she could have it already if she'd just asked.

retro_entertainment_collectibles · ‎08-25-2023

@gurlcat wrote:
Ah I get what you mean now. Welp, I gave it a whirl but nope, wouldn't let me refund. Thanks for nursing my tantrum. 🤣

I do suspect ebay will credit me the fees if I ask. I am a TRS after all, I can't remember the last time I asked for a feedback removal or any other favors, and this CSR did say he was putting in careful notes about the situation so I could get the shipping ding removed if needed (he was a good egg, very nice), so maybe I'll be able to kill 2 birds with one phone call, after the dispute closes.

There is one bright side, however long I have to wait is also how long this nitwit buyer has to wait for her money back, when she could have it already if she'd just asked.

@gurlcat How CB's work here behind the scenes is not the same as having a merchant account. With a merchant account funds are placed on hold at a vendors bank account where the Automated Clearing House (ACH) deposits are made. That bank usually assess a $25 fee for the hold, the merchant account provider say Chase or Wells Fargo etc also assess a $25 fee upon the merchant. If the vendor chooses to dispute the CB every communication within the dispute is assessed a $25 fee. Now some places whereby the he said/she said goes on have it digital vs snail mail and they might wave said fee. The actual dispute claim is often handled by the aggregate processor, the "middle man" if you will as they are independent in the chain of the transaction.

This is where it's a "rated game" comes to bare as coming and going the "system" is making $$$.

Way when back I'd a merchant account with EMS and later went to Card Service International and my ex created a way to handshake purchases. Basically speaking just an extra step whereby a buyer be sent an automated code that they could use to verify the purchase online at their bank, in person or an ATM thus clipping a WHOLE LOT of stolen card matters. You'd think her trying sell snow to Penguins.

gurlcat · ‎08-27-2023

@inhawaii  @retro_entertainment_collectibles  @wastingtime101 @ittybitnot

OMG, MYSTERY FINALLY SOLVED!! And let me tell you it was HARD (details to follow) but I can't convey what a relief it is to finally know what happened, because I'm one of those people who would rather face a blatant misfortune than a mysterious inconvenience, any day.

So, remember how I said the buyer never replied to my message? Well, yesterday I was on my Selling Overview, and I just happened to scroll down the series of prompts. When I got down to the 'Messages From Buyers' module, my attention was drawn to a thumbnail of these earrings, and a quote (the first line of a message from this buyer!). Reading: "It's not you. I had many, many transactions done, unauthorized. An......" Well, there's no option to click on these and just read them; the only option is 'Reply.' So I clicked on that, hoping it would pull up the full message under the reply text box. But no, it was the red banner "You cannot reply because ....." And of course I scoured my inbox but this message was not there either. I have no idea why that was the case, other than the fact that I had blocked the buyer after approving the chargeback. But I have my preference set to ALLOW blocked buyers to message me.

But, figuring that must be it somehow, I removed her name from my BBL, and wrote to her again, noting that I did approve the chargeback Wednesday (just in case she somehow didn't know), and asked if she could please re-send the failed message or summarize it. Luckily there were no more failed deliveries, but oh boy was it still a rodeo getting her to clarify what happened.

She's one of those folks who writes emails like text messages, rapid-fire with only a sentence or two in each one. And after 8 or 9 of them, not only was I no closer to knowing what happened, I couldn't even tell whether this communication problem was: 1. English fluency (her ability to understand me and/or write what she meant to say -her abilities at both seemed to vary from flawless to abysmal from one message to the next, as if 2 different people were writing in turn), 2. Business fluency (whether she knew the difference between 'cancel,' 'chargeback,' and 'refund', and she would use words like 'account' without clarifying ebay, card, Paypal, etc.), or ..... 3. If she was purposely being confusing and/or clueless-appearing, because she was either a scammer or just messed up and was too embarrassed to say that.

Mind you, my persisting to keep replying, keep trying to get clarity ... it wasn't just for my own curiosity or intent to nail a bad guy; if she was totally innocent, in fact a victim herself, I might be able to help her. Her first message said something about a bunch of unauthorized charges for items, where some already had tracking numbers, and that struck me as too fine a detail to be made-up (right?). But then in another message she asked if I would please "send" her "refund," like someone who had no idea what I meant when I said I approved her chargeback on Wednesday, nor had she received (or understood?) any notifications from ebay or her financial institution, stating that I had done so, or what to expect next.

At one point I thought I had an "a-ha" moment, because I could still access the order details which showed the delivery address. I thought, "If that is HER address, then the charge couldn't have been by a hacker, because how could they get the item with it going to her house?" Or alternatively, "if it was her daughter or somebody else in her home, seeing the address might help her realize that." So I took a screenshot of the address and asked if it was hers.

Her reply: "Yes. Can you send me a new offer or a way to buy this item? After this matter was solve?"

Nearly.
Pulled.
My.
Hair.
Out.

But I thought I would try just one more time. I said, "Okay, I will go back to my first question. If you wanted the earrings, why did you do the chargeback?"

Her reply: "I didn’t request a charge back. I only request an investigation of the multiple charges to my accounts, but I didn’t identify which charges are specifically. They already found several items with alerts of fraud."

And with that, it allllll made sense. She did want the earrings, did make the offer, did pay 2 days later. But then she immediately went to her financial institution site (Paypal apparently) and saw a bunch of other purchases she didn't make, and immediately requested an investigation, which immediately froze all pending charges including this one, despite it being legit. I told her if all the purchases were from Ebay then she definitely needed to change her password. She replied that yes, she did immediately change her Paypal password ..... and I decided I couldn't handle any more of this, lol.

As for the earrings, I don't know what I'll do with them. To be honest I think they might be cursed. They already were bought/canceled by another buyer, and bought/returned by another. I hope they're not just attached to me because I think they're hideous. 🤣

campanaelia · ‎08-27-2023

When the buyer made the offer and it was accepted, possibly the buyer was not expecting it to be auto paid by ebays new auto-pay policy for offers?

NO KINGS

gurlcat · ‎08-27-2023

@campanaelia wrote:
When the buyer made the offer and it was accepted, possibly the buyer was not expecting it to be auto paid by ebays new auto-pay policy for offers?

Nope. It wasn't auto-paid, in fact it wasn't paid until 2 days after acceptance. And I have the auto-pay feature turned 'OFF' so it is not required of buyers.

powell-memorabilia · ‎08-27-2023

Greg Brady would tell you to dump these earrings before it is too late.

retro_entertainment_collectibles · ‎08-27-2023

@gurlcat wrote:
@inhawaii  @retro_entertainment_collectibles  @wastingtime101 @ittybitnot

OMG, MYSTERY FINALLY SOLVED!! And let me tell you it was HARD (details to follow) but I can't convey what a relief it is to finally know what happened, because I'm one of those people who would rather face a blatant misfortune than a mysterious inconvenience, any day.

So, remember how I said the buyer never replied to my message? Well, yesterday I was on my Selling Overview, and I just happened to scroll down the series of prompts. When I got down to the 'Messages From Buyers' module, my attention was drawn to a thumbnail of these earrings, and a quote (the first line of a message from this buyer!). Reading: "It's not you. I had many, many transactions done, unauthorized. An......" Well, there's no option to click on these and just read them; the only option is 'Reply.' So I clicked on that, hoping it would pull up the full message under the reply text box. But no, it was the red banner "You cannot reply because ....." And of course I scoured my inbox but this message was not there either. I have no idea why that was the case, other than the fact that I had blocked the buyer after approving the chargeback. But I have my preference set to ALLOW blocked buyers to message me.

But, figuring that must be it somehow, I removed her name from my BBL, and wrote to her again, noting that I did approve the chargeback Wednesday (just in case she somehow didn't know), and asked if she could please re-send the failed message or summarize it. Luckily there were no more failed deliveries, but oh boy was it still a rodeo getting her to clarify what happened.

She's one of those folks who writes emails like text messages, rapid-fire with only a sentence or two in each one. And after 8 or 9 of them, not only was I no closer to knowing what happened, I couldn't even tell whether this communication problem was: 1. English fluency (her ability to understand me and/or write what she meant to say -her abilities at both seemed to vary from flawless to abysmal from one message to the next, as if 2 different people were writing in turn), 2. Business fluency (whether she knew the difference between 'cancel,' 'chargeback,' and 'refund', and she would use words like 'account' without clarifying ebay, card, Paypal, etc.), or ..... 3. If she was purposely being confusing and/or clueless-appearing, because she was either a scammer or just messed up and was too embarrassed to say that.

Mind you, my persisting to keep replying, keep trying to get clarity ... it wasn't just for my own curiosity or intent to nail a bad guy; if she was totally innocent, in fact a victim herself, I might be able to help her. Her first message said something about a bunch of unauthorized charges for items, where some already had tracking numbers, and that struck me as too fine a detail to be made-up (right?). But then in another message she asked if I would please "send" her "refund," like someone who had no idea what I meant when I said I approved her chargeback on Wednesday, nor had she received (or understood?) any notifications from ebay or her financial institution, stating that I had done so, or what to expect next.

At one point I thought I had an "a-ha" moment, because I could still access the order details which showed the delivery address. I thought, "If that is HER address, then the charge couldn't have been by a hacker, because how could they get the item with it going to her house?" Or alternatively, "if it was her daughter or somebody else in her home, seeing the address might help her realize that." So I took a screenshot of the address and asked if it was hers.

Her reply: "Yes. Can you send me a new offer or a way to buy this item? After this matter was solve?"

Nearly.
Pulled.
My.
Hair.
Out.

But I thought I would try just one more time. I said, "Okay, I will go back to my first question. If you wanted the earrings, why did you do the chargeback?"

Her reply: "I didn’t request a charge back. I only request an investigation of the multiple charges to my accounts, but I didn’t identify which charges are specifically. They already found several items with alerts of fraud."

And with that, it allllll made sense. She did want the earrings, did make the offer, did pay 2 days later. But then she immediately went to her financial institution site (Paypal apparently) and saw a bunch of other purchases she didn't make, and immediately requested an investigation, which immediately froze all pending charges including this one, despite it being legit. I told her if all the purchases were from Ebay then she definitely needed to change her password. She replied that yes, she did immediately change her Paypal password ..... and I decided I couldn't handle any more of this, lol.

As for the earrings, I don't know what I'll do with them. To be honest I think they might be cursed. They already were bought/canceled by another buyer, and bought/returned by another. I hope they're not just attached to me because I think they're hideous.  🤣

@gurlcat

Oh my gosh you're so dang funny!

In respect to the issues at hand ya' just never know these "daze." I mean like the World Health Organization claims that's mental wellness issues are the globe's largest health concern... Me I'd argue it's social media but who am I to cast stones into the digital abyss?

I was part owner in a game store some years back not that I actually am a gamer. I do like a good simulation like building a city or commanding a submarine both of which I'd likely be fired for the moment I laid the first brick or sunk leaving port never to arise again. Tellin' ya' a good 60-70% of what walked through the storefront door I'd have issues in trusting with my cat's litterbox.

As to hackers, crackers and breakfast snacker's oh yeah they can be troublesome. I actually had my identity stolen by an employee of Chase Manhattan way back when. The first indication was going to an ATM only to find I could take out not a cent. Oh what a furiculous folly that all was!

Are you using the new eBay messaging vs the old? I prefer the old one myself but hey, I still use a desktop computer that I'm 110% positive will fossilize within the next ten years. And as to the cursed earrings consider melting them down, affixing drops to penny coins with solder flux and then sending the pennies off to Congress or just keep em', sorta "Sent-a-Mental." Hang em' in the window come Halloween and see the candy comes to you?

I am happy that at least you have some closure of the matter and believe you me I know exactly how frustrating things can be. When PC Software was the rage "OH BOY" did I have some zingers! Try providing technical support in the Windows 95/98 days via email or phone to folks who just think, "The entire world works except for my purchase from you!"