What kind of protection are sellers offered from scammers?

[harcoregamer518]

I  am selling an expensive item to which I believe I'm being scammed.   

First buyer was listed as living in the Ukraine, wanted it shipped to Maryland and the PP account was listed to a woman with the same last name as the Ukrainian buyer. I refunded their money citing the descrepencies. They later messaged me asking why I refunded the money and I gave them the same reason to which I got no reply.

Now a few hours after relisting someone with a brand new account has purchased the item which makes me believe its the same user who is likely running some type of shipping ring.   Im not sure if Ill be penalized for doing the same again or what Ebay can do if I ship it out and something happens to the funds. When I sold a laptop on Ebay in 2011, Paypal immediately siezed the funds and advised me to not ship the item as a scam that involves depositing a more than the buyer was asking for and later retracting the funds

[slati_2013]

This is a tough one. I for example do not ship to Russia, but a buyer from Russia purchased something from me and the PayPal address was in New York. I sent it and had no problem. I have also done the same for buyers in Mexico.

The reason why it is tough is because Ukraine is quickly earning itself a reputation as a scam destination, however personally I think as long as the buyer with a US address paid and it is a residence, you probably should have shipped it. Sounds like the person was his relative. 

[*eponymous*]

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@harcoregamer518 wrote:

The Ukraine buyer didnt use a fowarding service. They wanted it shipped to someone named Robert in Maryland using a residential address.

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Glad you cleared that up. Ship it to Robert in Maryland.

Or take a defect.

[harcoregamer518]

Upon looking at the name of the buyer compared to the recipient, I cant see any relation. I remember looking at the buyers name and thinking "he's either russian or african" paypal account used the same last name but a womans first name. Oxana or something similar. Recipient name is Russell Knowles. Purchaser is Alberig. Too many coincidenes. Ive also used spokeo to get property info. Current buyers name matches with property owner. Ill send it Today.

I was thinking about the same thing with the Ukraine. First buyer is listed in Kiev which last I checked is still reeling from the results of the annexation of Crimea. Perfect place for scammers to dig in and set up shop. If I wouldve gotten a reply I may have reconsidered but the buyer dissappeared when the "S" word came up.

[retrose1]

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@harcoregamer518 wrote:

Upon looking at the name of the buyer compared to the recipient, I cant see any relation. I remember looking at the buyers name and thinking "he's either russian or african" paypal account used the same last name but a womans first name. Oxana or something similar. Recipient name is Russell Knowles. Purchaser is Alberig. Too many coincidenes. Ive also used spokeo to get property info. Current buyers name matches with property owner. Ill send it Today.

I was thinking about the same thing with the Ukraine. First buyer is listed in Kiev which last I checked is still reeling from the results of the annexation of Crimea. Perfect place for scammers to dig in and set up shop. If I wouldve gotten a reply I may have reconsidered but the buyer dissappeared when the "S" word came up.

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You are a low feedback seller listing high dollar items - that is like chum in the water and it draws scammers.

I will not even give odds that if you ship the item, you will be back here wanting to know what to do because the buyer is claiming the item is broke, the box is empty, they didn't get the item, and on and on and you are about to or have lost the payment for the item.  And will get scammed.

In answer to your question...What kind of protection are sellers offered from scammers?  ... the answer is that the ONLY consistant seller protection that ebay offers sellers is that if they have tracking that shows delivery to the address on the paypal payment - then the seller will win an Item Not Received (INR) dispute.  After that, there is less than zero protection by ebay as ebay makes the dispute process confusing and hard to negotiate.  In cases of buyer says/seller says, ebay will always believe the buyer.

As was posted upthread, but you need to hear again is that the time to worry about your protections is before you list the item.  Do you know what to do if the buyer claims the item is broke....that the item is different than what they bought....that the item doesn't work...that the box was empty....that it is missing parts.....and on and on? 

Do you know what to do when the buyer files a Not Described Dispute (SNAD) against you?  Which is what is going to happen because New Other does NOT mean used a couple of times.  The buyer will get it, immediatly file a snad and either convince you to do a large partial refund to make the problem go away OR use your inexperience with ebay to get a freebie as the case will end up with ebay refunding the buyer and letting them keep the item.

It is never a good idea to list an item on ebay that is worth more than $35 on ebay until you have as much recent selling feedback as the dollar value of the item.  We see way too many threads from newbie sellers who lost high dollar items because they didn't have the knowledge or experience to deal with what happens after they ship their items to their buyers.

[chrysylys]

Any seller's first line of protection is simply not to sell scam prone items.

But I have to wonder if it's sven legal to ship that item out of the US.  Or to sell it at all.

[d-k_treasures]

The OP also should have listed it as 'Used' and not 'New(Other)'.

[gramophone-georg]

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@harcoregamer518 wrote:

Ill ship it out to this new buyer as long as I get my money. The profile listed an address in the Ukraine, but buyers note asked me not to include an invoice and requested I send it to Maryland. Also used very gentlemanly/courteous language reminiscent of those "wealthy nigerian prince" schemes. 

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You'll get it... the question is if you'll get to keep  it. And, short answer: There is no "protection" from scammers here... in fact, eBay and PayPal give them quite a tool kit, unfortunately.

[femmefan1946]

but a womans first name. Oxana or something similar. Recipient name is Russell Knowles. Purchaser is Alberig.

My name is completely different from my husband's, and we've been married for 50 years come July.

My sister uses her maiden name professionally, and her married name socially. She actually paid the Nurse's association to have her certification changed to her maiden name after she divorced the first husband.

Not saying you shouldn't be cautious, but having two very different names is not a deal killer.

[marinermikes]

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@emerald40 wrote:
If you don't ship internationally, thats the only way international buyers can buy from you.

__________________________________________________________
Am I the only person who sees a problem with that.

If I do not ship Internationally that does not mean a buyer can do an end run around it.
It should mean you have to live in the US.

Or paypal needs to catch up with ebay that once it leaves the reshipper, it cannot be returned for any reason.

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I've been complaining about just that for two weeks now. 

Foreign buyer has a U.S. email address and freight forward physical address. They may even own the freight forward company. You send the item to the pay pal registered address. The freight forward company then sends the item on to Korea or else where. You have no way to prove this.

You don't even know there is a problem until months later when they start with the old I want a partial refund carp. Of course this doesn't fly with EBay, it's been too long but Pay Enemy is a whole different story.  They do no investigation and side with the buyer. Regardless of how many goolge pages of scam alerts there are against this outfit. It doesn't matter to Pay Pal that the address is a freight forward company.  They have no way to prove it was shipped over seas! According to them.

One hundred and seventy days after the sale they file a snad. Of course I refuse to do the partial. Most people just give in a do the partial that's the scam. Since I refused EBay made them send it back on their dime. They have ten days to print a label. Nine days later they print a label. Twelve days after that it get's it's first tracking scan. That's twenty days. Plenty of time to get it back to the U.S.  A week later it shows up here looking like it got run over by a mac truck. One hundred dollar clock ruined. No insurance on it.

They have found a way around the "I don't ship overseas" alright and the icing on the cake is that Pay Pal holds you responsible for the item safe arrival the whole way!

[thallidguy]

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@bonjourami wrote:

The Maryland address was not an option on their payment page? They may have wanted it shipped to a relative and the relative forwards it to them in the Ukraine, you are still only responsible for sending it safely to the Maryland address..

I agree that this is a very real possibility. Either the relative as acting as a fee-free forwarding service, or he's going to hold it pending a personal visit. I've encountered scenarios like that before.

[thallidguy]

I guess you missed the memo about how using forwarding services negates buyer protection for anything that happens after the forwarding service receives the package. The only exposure that the seller has after safely delivering the item to the forwarding service is a PayPal SNAD dispute, and the fact that PayPal will require the buyer to pay for return shipping is a bit of a discouragement to scammers.

Where the heck do you think that eBay got the idea for the GSP? With the GSP the seller is shielded from liability for anything that happens after the item is delivered to the shipping center in Kentucky. They got the idea from these forwarding services and the fact that their own policies negated buyer protection once the forwarder took possession of the item.

I've been dealing with foreign buyers through forwarding services for 15 years without any sort of problem. In my experience, the buyers who use them are easy ot deal with because they're experienced and they know what's what.

But hey, don't let facts get in the way of another "foreigners are so-o-o scary" garbage rant.

[retrose1]

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@gramophone-georg wrote:

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@harcoregamer518 wrote:

Ill ship it out to this new buyer as long as I get my money. The profile listed an address in the Ukraine, but buyers note asked me not to include an invoice and requested I send it to Maryland. Also used very gentlemanly/courteous language reminiscent of those "wealthy nigerian prince" schemes. 

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You'll get it... the question is if you'll get to keep  it. And, short answer: There is no "protection" from scammers here... in fact, eBay and PayPal give them quite a tool kit, unfortunately.

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Maybe not.  The buyer might send a fake you've been paid email to the OP in the hopes that the seller will ship.  OR the newly popular, pay by echeck or slow bank transfer backed by check and insist that the seller ship fast and then cancel the check once tracking is uploaded.

OP, it is amazing the depth and breath of the successful scams that are being used by those with more experience on how ebay works than the average casual seller.  But if a buyer wants to scam you, the item/money is lost the second you give it to the Post Office.

[marinermikes]

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@thallidguy wrote:

I guess you missed the memo about how using forwarding services negates buyer protection for anything that happens after the forwarding service receives the package. The only exposure that the seller has after safely delivering the item to the forwarding service is a PayPal SNAD dispute, and the fact that PayPal will require the buyer to pay for return shipping is a bit of a discouragement to scammers.

Where the heck do you think that eBay got the idea for the GSP? With the GSP the seller is shielded from liability for anything that happens after the item is delivered to the shipping center in Kentucky. They got the idea from these forwarding services and the fact that their own policies negated buyer protection once the forwarder took possession of the item.

I've been dealing with foreign buyers through forwarding services for 15 years without any sort of problem. In my experience, the buyers who use them are easy ot deal with because they're experienced and they know what's what.

But hey, don't let facts get in the way of another "foreigners are so-o-o scary" garbage rant.

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I've dealt with many foreign buyers myself. Sold a car and shipped it to the Netherlands's. 

I don't know about EBay. My buyer filed a case with EBay and lost. Not only because he lied and said he never received it but because it had been almost four months.

Pay Pal does not recognize drop shippers period. I was absolutely sickened when I googled the address I shipped the clock to. Pages of EBay users complaining about this outfit. All the same story, months after the transaction the user demands a partial.

This person is buying items by the hundreds a day and keeps a one hundred percent postive feedback because of EBay feedback policy and the user never causes a problem until months later. They do have it down to a science.

You can believe it or not but this particular outfit is sending the items overseas and then filing a claim. I hope it doesn't happen to you.

[marinermikes]

Also GSP doesn't work that well either. Lot's of problems. I used it one time and had a buyer so mad at me he was spiting bullets. The item disappeared never to be seen again. The buyer held me responsible. I had to fight with global to make them fix it. I'll never use them again!

[d-k_treasures]

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@thallidguy wrote:

I guess you missed the memo about how using forwarding services negates buyer protection for anything that happens after the forwarding service receives the package. The only exposure that the seller has after safely delivering the item to the forwarding service is a PayPal SNAD dispute, and the fact that PayPal will require the buyer to pay for return shipping is a bit of a discouragement to scammers.

Where the heck do you think that eBay got the idea for the GSP? With the GSP the seller is shielded from liability for anything that happens after the item is delivered to the shipping center in Kentucky. They got the idea from these forwarding services and the fact that their own policies negated buyer protection once the forwarder took possession of the item.

I've been dealing with foreign buyers through forwarding services for 15 years without any sort of problem. In my experience, the buyers who use them are easy ot deal with because they're experienced and they know what's what.

But hey, don't let facts get in the way of another "foreigners are so-o-o scary" garbage rant.

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Except if a buyer files SNAD thru ebay, then the seller has to pony up the money to have it shipped back(other than shipping damage).

Or just give all of the money back to the buyer.